I’m confused, is the shark part of a hate group and who is he jumping?
It is the lesson, do not repeat blindly what you hear on a radio or similar - people make bullshit claims and sometimes their prejudices distort into outright falseness. As clearly in this case.
About Hirsi Ali they are right. I do not know Nawaz, the criticisms in there seem maybe not fair… perhaps he is hypocritical, but he seems to be of a different quality than the others.
Here is the response to SPLC from Maajid Nawaz:
Nawaz is legitimately a controversial pick–and the last bullet of “in his own words” is especially bullshit.
But I’m a little surprised that people would criticize the inclusion of Hirsi Ali, but not object to pretty much everyone included on the list. She’s not really any better than Pamela Gellar. If anything, she’s worse, because she has a veil of credibility.
There is a change.org petition to urge the SPLC to remove these two from their blacklist:
Petition · Remove Maajid Nawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali from the SPLC's list of anti-Muslim extremists - United States · Change.org
It has around 10,000 signatures, but SPLC has sent a statement that they will not back down, see here:
[QUOTE=SPLC]
That kind of talk is not what we want people to discuss when discussing Muslims. These are conspiracy theories and it’s dangerous to portray every Muslim essentially as an infiltrator…
[/QUOTE]
In response to this accusation of being a conspiracy theorist, Nawaz has said in the article I linked to above
[QUOTE=Maajid Nawaz]
It’s not as if there’s any shortage of Muslim extremists who want me dead. They exist in numbers so plenty that former jihadists have even taken to calling in to my live LBC radio show to confess to once having made plans to assassinate me. Europe has witnessed around 6,000 of our fellow Muslims leave to join ISIS. Here in Europe, amid jihadist assassinations and mass terror attacks planned with military precision, we truly are in the thick of it. Meanwhile, from the comforts of sweet Alabama comes this edict that liberal Muslims working to throw open a conversation around reforming Islam today are somehow to be deemed “anti-Muslim extremists.”
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, here is a video of Nawaz actually talking on a UK radio show to a reformed extremist IS sympathizer: someone who had actually plotted to kill him:
Listen to what this ex-IS sympathizer says about the notion that potentially violent extremists are some tiny minority in UK Muslim communities.The SPLC have essentially issued a fatwa on AHA and Nawaz; as if they didn’t already have a target on their backs.
yes i agree
They issued a religious scholarly opinion? how very strange, there is no religious scholarly opinion. It seems to me just a banal secular list of people they consider to be problematic speakers.
The idea that either of them is in ‘danger’ over the listing from some american human rights organization is just a very strange one.
Nawaz did an editorial for the Daily Mail? (Yes, that Daily Fail)
It is really him the one that jumped the shark. And as others have pointed out the OP was misled by the ones spinning this in right wing media sources, as usual I can see that the posters from the right always get upset with the ones pointing at the lies and exaggerations made by those right wing sources and instead of demanding better or dumping those sources the right wingers insist on disparaging the ones who are telling them who and how they are being misled.
Today I learned the word “Neo-Orientalism”.
Neat.
He wrote the book “Radical”, which is about his journey both into and out of radical Islamism. He is very vocal against the radical elements now, and has been threatened. It’s an excellent read, by the way.
What the fuck, where do you get this? My knowledge of Hirsi Ali comes primarily from interviews by Bill Maher and Sam Harris. Despite attempts on the far left to claim otherwise, it’s not reasonable to call either of them “right wing”. Not only are both of them campaigning strenuously against Trump, Maher was for Bernie earlier in the campaign season, and he gave $1 million in 2012 to help get President Obama reelected.
No they are not. And a woman who left a fundamentalist Baptist church or Catholicism or Mormonism and complained about the patriarchal way she was raised would not get this kind of heat. It’s a blatant double standard that exists simply because Muslims are more likely to have brown skin. So even the fact that Hirsi Ali herself is brown-skinned is not enough to save her from being thrown under the bus.
And your list of Muslim countries where women are allowed to be single and live alone would be comical if it weren’t so sad. What percentage of the world’s Muslim population do those cover? Did not look like a large one. And just because they are allowed to live alone does not mean they could openly be sexually active and atheistic and not have to live in danger. Whereas across the West this is an unremarkable way to live in the 21st-century for a modern woman.
Baloney. People would be tripping over themselves to explain how it was a subset of Christianity and how mainstream Christianity doesn’t believe that etc. They would support her but warn people about not painting all of Christianity with such a broad brush. Happens with Hasidic Judaism as well- people seem to have no problem distinguishing between fundamentalism and not fundamentalism.
Read it again, I’m not calling them as being right wing, only that the right wing is doing what I would call nutpicking and they are attempting here to claim that all the liberals should do as they claim, there are a few logical problems with that that you are ignoring.
Being wrong on an issue does not mean that they are 100% right wingers, they are however useful to the right to use as wedges.
It has to be noted here that you are willfully ignoring that what I pointed too was that the here you are misrepresenting the reasons why the SPLC is complaining against them and that they are not on the list you claim.
Hirsi Ali is inarguably an anti-Muslim extremist. She believes that Islam is inherently evil and is something to be defeated before it can be reborn or reformed. I don’t know how you get more extremist in your anti-Muslim sentiment than that.
I suspect that the defense of Hirsi Ali is less an attempt to argue that she’s not an anti-Muslim extremist, and more to argue that being such a person is fine and justified. In other words, you believe she’s not an extremist because you agree with her.
Mrs Ferguson is a liar and has been proven as one many times.
From what I can gather about him, Majid Nawaz is basically mental vascillating from one extreme to another.
Can organization can make a decision you disagree and not lose all your respect?
They have their reasons for doing this. My inclination is that they are wrong to do it. I still think they’re a great organization with honest motivations and ethics.
ETA: Reading** Richard Parker’s **post above, makes me question whether my anti-religious views color my perception.
This really illustrates the mission creep. What you’re describing there is clearly what they were founded to do, and it is the kind of thing that always made me admire them so much. But just think about their name: what does denouncing Hirsi Ali have to do with Southern poverty law?
No, you read what you wrote again: “thie OP was misled by the ones spinning this in right wing media sources”. I am the OP. Right? With me so far? But I did not get any of my information from right wing sources. Therefore it is impossible that I was misled by them.
They combat hate, intolerance and discrimination. That is their charter. They may have started with the idea of protecting poor southerners from hate and discrimination, but you see it’s a big world, with lots of people hating, intolerating, and discriminating.
It’s not so much mission creep as continuing on the mission that they were originally chartered for.
So, where did you get the incorrect information that they were added to the list of hate groups? It was assumed that you picked that up from some media, but it appears you came to that erroneous conclusion on your own.
Good for you for prioritizing your fact-free and bigoted ideology over the good of the country. Why try to do what’s best for America when you can say “fuck you” to liberals?
You’re not a patriot, coward, and you never were. You’re just a whiny, sniveling, cowardly bigot. No one who actually loved America could have such a sentiment.
I have a lot of sympathy for Ayaan Hirsi Ali based on her life experience, but she’s definitely espoused extreme views.
By some definitions of “extreme”. She is an atheist, and that is undeniably “extreme” (though correct) in most parts of the world. But what does it mean to call her specific views about Islam extreme? Does it require there to be only a small minority of Americans who share them? Or just that they go against the majority view within the left-wing intelligentsia?
Can you not fucking read? The very first sentence of my OP makes it crystal clear that my information came from Sam Harris’s podcast, and the Atlantic. Neither of which is a right wing source. And you are splitting hairs to call the information incorrect.