# The specific clusterfuck of discussing war plans over Signal, a consumer cellphone app **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 26, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157 "2025-03-26T21:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Slight\_Off\_Hand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Slight\_Off\_Hand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slight_Off_Hand)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/241 "2025-04-24T11:18:33Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > He heard there was going to be free drinks. He was very confused when there was nothing but mixers available. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/242 "2025-04-24T15:19:29Z")
Sounds like Kegsbreath installed Signal on his Pentagon computer (gift link below). First, how the fuck could a Pentagon computer be configured to allow software like this? They say it is a computer for “personal use” and again I say WTF? How can federal money be used to purchase items for personal usage? Lastly, Blondie Baghdad Bob said Signal is an approved app for government work. Is it really? For confidential or classified info? > **[Hegseth Set Up Signal on a Computer in His Pentagon Office](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/24/us/politics/hegseth-signal-pentagon.html?unlocked_article_code=1.CE8.yrmZ.-lKyxuCrfHJm&smid=url-share)** > > The app facilitated communications in a building where cell service is poor and personal phones are not allowed in some areas. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/243 "2025-04-24T16:08:29Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > First, how the fuck could a Pentagon computer be configured to allow software like this? Based on my experience in the area (doing IT at large organizations, including the government job I currently hold), I am guessing it’s one of three things. 1. They’re firing people at such a rate that they can’t maintain a competent staff for an organization of their size, so they are compromising security for the sake of convenience, or even necessity, because it takes a lot of manpower to manage proper security best practices. If you just leave a system open and let people do whatever they want on their own, it lifts the burden from IT staff who might be in short supply right now. 2. He just told someone in IT to install it and because of his position they couldn’t say no. Which isn’t actually that unusual. The person on the top of the org chart in any organization is always authorized to override anyone underneath them. A _competent_ leader would listen to the cautions of their IT staff about why a certain piece of software isn’t a good idea, but we’re talking about Pete Hegseth here. 3. His computer at the Pentagon is some personal computer that he brings in and he’s allowed to do that because (see #2 above). Obviously any of those situations is horrible and probably illegal at a place like the Pentagon, but again, with that administration so out of control, what can you do? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/244 "2025-04-24T16:09:01Z")
Probably not for classified info, but if government officials are using signal for stuff like, “are you available to meet next Thursday, sometime between 3pm and 6pm?”, i don’t have a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/245 "2025-04-24T16:14:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > His computer at the Pentagon is some personal computer that he brings in and he’s allowed to do that because (see #2 above). This is the first thing I thought of. Insecure as hell, but he’s the boss. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/246 "2025-04-24T17:19:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The person on the top of the org chart in any organization is always authorized to override anyone underneath them. Which is how Jared Kushner and others in the first administration got their security clearances. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/247 "2025-04-24T17:27:45Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > Which is how Jared Kushner and others in the first administration got their security clearances. I don’t doubt that at all. The founding fathers seemed to anticipate this sort of problem nearly 250 years ago (talk about forward-thinking!) and so set up the different branches of government to act as checks and balances on one another. So if you have a crazy POTUS who just wants to put dangerously incompetent people in key positions of the executive branch, there are tools in the other branches to curb that. The legislature can refuse to confirm those insane choices or pass laws governing their behavior, and the judicial branch can determine when laws are broken and intervene. But right now that’s not happening because those other branches are failing as well. It doesn’t help when your checks and balances are managed by a triumvirate that is the equivalent of the Three Stooges. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/248 "2025-04-24T17:58:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Probably not for classified info Blondie Baghdad Bob needs to have a gigantic \* next to her statement. Approved for public and internal data. Not CUI, sensitive or classified. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/249 "2025-04-24T22:02:03Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > what can you do? This seems to be the prevailing attitude. To shrug and just let it all happen. I remember asking here many decades ago about how America seems to rely on the “checks and balances” being embedded so deep in the system they are completely protected from corruption, while to me they seemed incredibly fragile. Seems I was right. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/250 "2025-04-24T22:05:16Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > To shrug and just let it all happen. I keep hoping that there will be a breaking point. Either Trump goes too far and there is a division among Republicans (as some have already grumbled about), or at least when the midterms happen, if the legislature goes blue he will get some pushback. Those are not strong hopes but it’s what I have. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/251 "2025-04-25T12:16:18Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Probably not for classified info, but if government officials are using signal for stuff like, “are you available to meet next Thursday, sometime between 3pm and 6pm?”, i don’t have a problem with it. Two issues: 1. Setting up meetings is a government function that should be subject to discovery in the rare (hah!) case where something potentially (hah! again) illegal is going to be discussed. 2. Humans being humans, habit creation will lead to using Signal for other things. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/252 "2025-04-25T12:21:23Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Probably not for classified info, but if government officials are using signal for stuff like, “are you available to meet next Thursday, sometime between 3pm and 6pm?”, i don’t have a problem with it. Metadata are valuable intel and worthy of protection too. You can learn a lot from them, even without the content of the conversation. I still have a problem with allegedly innocuous content being transmitted via signal. OTOH: Not my circus, not my monkeys, not my government. Thank Godott! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/253 "2025-04-25T12:28:40Z")
Yeah, weren’t enemies tracking troop movements because soldiers were tracking their runs on Strava or something? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/254 "2025-04-25T12:36:42Z")
Ukraine (probably) is tracking Russian forces using a hacked hiking app. The Russians are using it because its terrain maps are so useful. > **[New Android spyware is targeting Russian military personnel on the front lines](https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/04/russian-military-personnel-on-the-front-lines-targeted-with-new-android-spyware/)** > > Trojanized mapping app steals users’ locations, contacts, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/255 "2025-04-25T13:10:51Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Yeah, weren’t enemies tracking troop movements because soldiers were tracking their runs on Strava or something? Yup. > **[Fitness tracking app Strava gives away location of secret US army bases](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracking-app-gives-away-location-of-secret-us-army-bases)** > > Data about exercise routes shared online by soldiers can be used to pinpoint overseas facilities ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/256 "2025-04-25T13:18:27Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Metadata are valuable intel and worthy of protection too. You can learn a lot from them, even without the content of the conversation. Yep. You can build relationships, and that can tell you things. You notice that when people X, Y and Z meet, nothing happens, but when X, Y and Z have a meeting with A and B, something blows up somewhere in the world. That tells you things about who does the planning, who does the approving, and can give you a heads-up that something is about to blow up. There’s a reason why the CIA is mostly analysts sitting in cubicles, and not James Bond types out killing folk. This is the kind of thing they build whole careers around. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/257 "2025-04-25T13:22:42Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > There’s a reason why the CIA is mostly analysts sitting in cubicles, and not James Bond types out killing folk. This is the kind of thing they build whole careers around. See, I’m reading the “[Spy School](https://stuartgibbs.com/books-2/spy-school/)” series of books (alongside my son, it’s our very own book club!) and so while I firmly believe the _adults_ are all analysts sitting in cubicles, the 13-15 year olds are _definitely_ doing some James Bond style bad guy foiling and nuclear bomb diffusion stuff! You’ll tell me it’s make believe, but that’s just what THEY want you to think! ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/258 "2025-04-25T13:58:48Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > > Metadata are valuable intel and worthy of protection too. You can learn a lot from them, even without the content of the conversation. > > Yep. You can build relationships, and that can tell you things. … As an example of this, one of the reasons Naval Intelligence was able to suss out what the Japanese were up to early in WWII — in addition to cracking the JN25 code (which, though a breakthrough, only gave them 20-25% of messages) — was the ability to recognize an individual operator’s “fist” (keying style), thus associating him with a particular ship or station. Who was talking to whom, and how frequently, gave valuable insight into what was in the works. (Now back to the Signal cock-up.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/259 "2025-04-25T14:34:57Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > (Now back to the Signal cock-up.) **HOLLY:** I’ve got to admit it, I’ve flamingoed-up. **RIMMER:** What? **HOLLY:** It’s like a cock-up, only much, much bigger. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/260 "2025-04-25T15:04:44Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > You can learn a lot from them, even without the content of the conversation. This is demonstrated in just about any episode of _Law & Order._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157.md?page=14)