# The specific clusterfuck of discussing war plans over Signal, a consumer cellphone app **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 26, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157 "2025-03-26T21:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/41 "2025-03-25T17:23:36Z")
Sadly, I think we missed a chunk of very entertaining talk when Goldberg left the chat. The participants would have seen it, and I’d love to see their reaction! Especially in light of Hegseth’s earlier post that Operation Security was tight (whilst a journalist watches from the wings). ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/42 "2025-03-25T17:26:47Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > Especially in light of Hegseth’s earlier post that Operation Security was tight “When I said it was ‘tight’, I meant ‘drunk’! Wait no, that’s worse, isn’t it?” ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/43 "2025-03-25T17:31:31Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > How long will it be until the Trump Administration accuses Jeffrey Goldburg of a criminal act for not removing himself from the text exchange as soon as he realized it was going to have top secret information? I’m sure they can find a way to deflect their own guilt and charge him instead. The only person prosecuted for the ‘WhiskeyLeaks-1’ scandal? Could be. ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/44 "2025-03-25T18:00:58Z")
Is it possible that Waltz included Goldburg on purpose? Using Signal to coordinate top secret activities is illegal for many reasons, one of which is that all communications like this are required to be preserved for the National Archives. When the signal group chat was activated, it was also set to disappear within a few months preventing the archives from saving any data. We know Trump hates the National Archives because of his fight over classified materials. We also know Trump is corrupt and will want to deny any responsibility for things he “knows nothing about”. I wonder if he ordered his security team to use Signal specifically to bypass laws about preserving records and to distance himself from any foul ups should they occur later on. Maybe Mike Waltz realized that that was unethical and purposely included Goldburg into the chat to stymie future use of Signal? If not for ethical reasons, maybe self preservation so he’d not be accountable when this practice would inevitably come to light later on? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/45 "2025-03-25T18:29:27Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > Maybe Mike Waltz realized that that was unethical and purposely included Goldburg into the chat to stymie future use of Signal? If not for ethical reasons, maybe self preservation so he’d not be accountable when this practice would inevitably come to light later on? If he had enough integrity to worry about this, he’d have never gotten the job in the first place. The idea that he did it deliberately is silly, when you realize he’s opened himself to possible criminal charges. In any normal administration, he’d already be fired, and they’d be looking at charging him with several different crimes. Again, no way does anyone “qualified” to work for Trump have enough integrity to take such a risk for “the country” or some other thing that isn’t themselves or Trump. And if, by some miracle, someone in Trump’s orbit did suddenly have a crisis of faith, and decide to expose the behind the scenes illegalities that are happening, they could just blow the whistle on in all, openly. Trump would seek to punish them for disloyalty in any case, but if they blew the whistle in accordance with the law, they’d at least have the Democrats trying to protect them. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/46 "2025-03-25T19:37:16Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > Sadly, I think we missed a chunk of very entertaining talk when Goldberg left the chat. The participants would have seen it, and I’d love to see their reaction! Especially in light of Hegseth’s earlier post that Operation Security was tight (whilst a journalist watches from the wings). Yeah, having an honorable man of principle involved really messes up everybody’s fun./s ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/47 "2025-03-25T19:54:27Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > Is it possible that Waltz included Goldburg on purpose? Crazy like a fox…with rabies! ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/48 "2025-03-25T23:06:49Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Decider In Chief, aka the DIC Decider In Chief, … King ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/49 "2025-03-26T04:39:31Z")
If they were discussing this on Signal, you know they’ve discussed other things on it, too. This is just the first time they’ve been caught. And they’re doing it so that official records aren’t kept. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/50 "2025-03-26T04:40:57Z")
Indubitably. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/51 "2025-03-26T05:16:14Z")
This is what happens when we have DUI hires at the top of the government. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/52 "2025-03-26T05:39:04Z")
Excellent comment! ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/53 "2025-03-26T13:38:23Z")
Yesterday we heard that nothing posted in that Signal chat that included a reporter was classified. So, said reporter shares nearly all messages since those saying nothing was classified also refused to share messages. Sure seems like this stuff would be considered classified. We have to handle our CUI with more care than these yahoos. > **[Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/signal-group-chat-attack-plans-hegseth-goldberg/682176/)** > > The administration has downplayed the importance of the text messages inadvertently sent to The Atlantic’s editor in chief. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/54 "2025-03-26T13:49:58Z")
One of my cousins shared this: > Reporter: “Would it be a problem if the Atlantic released all the text messages if they’re not classified?” > > That’s the question, isn’t it? > > Trump says this whole thing is manufactured by the “sleazebag press.” > > Okay. I take him at his word. Which always been so truthful and based in reality, right? No reason to doubt President Trump, is there? Is there, Republicans? No reason to doubt his veracity at all. No, Sir. You Republicans have to be feeling pretty confident right now, right? > > So, it’s simple. Trump says the texts are not classified. The Secretary of Defense, the National Security Advisor, the Director of National Intelligence, the Secretary of State, they all say the texts aren’t classified. > > Okay. > > Then there should be no problem whatsoever making a full unredacted transcript of the entire session public along with the names of every participant. > > Right? > > If Trump is telling the truth and the conversation was unclassified and national security was not compromised by his administration, then he can crush his political opponents, completely emasculate the Democrats, and end this entire situation in one fell swoop. > > He would be totally and immediately vindicated. > > All he has to do is release the full transcript. Simple. He would have instant and absolute victory. > > IF he’s telling the truth. > [@The Trump Administration: The Clusterfuck Continues](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues/1010068/3429): > > It has just come to my attention via train Reddit that several of Amtrak’s short-haul commuter lines are going dark effective immediately because there’s been a nationwide recall of the Horizon passenger cars that comprise most of the fleet. > > This has GOT to be Elmo’s doing somehow. I don’t see any news links about that. But Leon Skum wants to privatise Amtrak to make it more efficient (or something). For the record… > **[Amtrak Sets All-Time Ridership Record in Fiscal Year 2024 - Amtrak Media](https://media.amtrak.com/2024/12/amtrak-sets-all-time-ridership-record-in-fiscal-year-2024/)** > > Invests more than $4.5 billion in major infrastructure projects to support future growth WASHINGTON – Amtrak achieved an all-time ridership record in ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/55 "2025-03-26T13:52:56Z")
I heard an interview with the reporter. The full, unredacted text includes stuff like names of CIA operatives. I don’t know how classification works. Maybe someone needs to take an active step to make something classified, and no one did that with this text that was supposed to quietly disappear. The problem may be that it _wasn’t_ classified when it obviously should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/56 "2025-03-26T14:16:33Z")
The **[Very Stable Genius™](https://schumanchu.eu/html/l/l_00034animal~farm~revisited.html)** evidently misundeclassified it with his mind just by not thinking about it. Bonus: Pete Hegseth has **[washed his hands](https://www.newsweek.com/pete-hegseth-hand-washing-hygiene-fox-news-germs-1325989)** for the first time in over ten years. Not with soap and water, but in innocence. That is something! As an aside: How can a germphobe, a germ denier and RFK Jr. share a room? And I am not even talking about the rest room. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/57 "2025-03-26T18:53:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Trump says this whole thing is manufactured by the “sleazebag press.” > > Okay. I take him at his word. Which always been so truthful and based in reality, right? No reason to doubt President Trump, is there? Is there, Republicans? No reason to doubt his veracity at all. No, Sir. You Republicans have to be feeling pretty confident right now, right? Your long passage about the texts being released is a quotation of a [Facebook post by Jim Wright](https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle/posts/pfbid026TUhrnDaTJGLcBcVDnBarahHvfhrkCh8WUNvbvGn99zUtjtbcAqWAit8P83S4oSnl? __cft__ %5B0%5D=AZVbUHw0BXKagmUTD0WSaGH1GhHb1SBZ6TWkaSHfcfaEzSZikCtQTLa75hNYcyb2D5FY8mkB-ickqHGW5T5piv6Un5V2CHGIIhCoJCtnAIxQidRLup3BYFtS4kouF12ixmk& __tn__ =%2CO%2CP-R). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/58 "2025-03-26T19:16:25Z")
Here’s the [text of another Facebook post by Jim Wright](https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle/posts/pfbid02Wrqm1Mak8GyGfxyb3qjYSQZgPzAuYzCTtwwwgEy1h2yaWUWP82rnNcGQAVsvfd34l? __cft__ %5B0%5D=AZXxYIlgNbIs8slcjMPdQRuF9mJOLAT6B7wddq8xfe5P4G0JXJJc7eOI93Jpv7ChlkTz-X24NLnnYKqkV5fvFwifFK-iDikbBUP-8NMBdaOhgtH7zrttlnfnHHrS2C9ZUnHE3MQvQBigeWcgOTzYET_3V4cHSxlbLpkweH574QONHmp-0H5AUS-ty-MQxyOmTpDmKDkck7QgJjwL8mYBFL-3W9XtRikWEkQ1v0RQ5S-BXtSjDlZfRbqFGxlrNNit8rI& __tn__ =%2CO%2CP-y-R) about this clusterfuck. Chief Wright was in Navy Intelligence for much of his career and he knows this stuff. You may gather he is not happy. This post follows the release by the Atlantic of almost all the Signal thread. > And [it?] is. > > Trump said the chat was unclassified (though he seems to think it was some sort of phone call because he has no idea what a group chat actually is, but then he thinks the fact that his 19-year-old son can open a laptop is some sort of evidence of technological genius). > > So in self-defense, The Atlantic published it. > > I mean, it’s unclassified, right? > > Yeah. > > Oh boy. > > Based on my own experience with numerous similar operations, it’s pretty obvious everyone involved was lying during their congressional testimony yesterday. Big surprise there. > > It’s all there. Time. Date. Locations. Weapons. Targets. Units. All of that, made public before or during a mission (and even sometimes after) can lead directly to mission failure and put our assets at risk. Moreover, that bit where Vance is speculating regarding impact on oil prices? You’re talking political and economic impact of a military operation on a global scale. You honestly think any administration would want that sort of speculation out in the open? > > If any member of the military had shared this timeline with the public in advance of the strike, or had emailed it to a journalist, or sent it to a foreign agent, do you think Pete Hegseth would call that information classified and demand a court martial for treason? > > Tulsi Gabbard sure as hell would. > > Trump can’t have it both ways. > > If it’s classified for Joe Private, it’s classified for Pete Hegseth. > > For the military, this like the fire on USS Forrestal. It’s so bad that it’s HISTORICALLY bad. The kind of monumental ridiculously insane terrible cascading bad that we’ll use as a flaming example to teach generations of Sailors, Soldiers, Marines, Airman, and even Space Guard Whatever They’re Called, how NOT to do things. They’ll make training movies about this. Military who aren’t even born right now will know about this in detail 30 years from now. > > That’s how goddamn bad it is. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/59 "2025-03-26T19:35:36Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > How can a germphobe, a germ denier and RFK Jr. share a room? This sounds like the setup to a great joke, but I’m damned if I can come up with a punchline. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157/60 "2025-03-26T19:36:31Z")
First rule in the navy for enlisted and officer alike – to at least the rank of Captain – is _Never, ever, piss off a chief._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-specific-clusterfuck-of-discussing-war-plans-over-signal-a-consumer-cellphone-app/1016157.md?page=4)