# The Speech Clinton Should've Given **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872 "2005-01-21T05:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/21 "2005-01-21T18:36:25Z")
Thru blink luck and skill, Clinton did the best he could under the circumstances. Clinton had TWO problems - the political one and the legal one. The best of bad choices on one would make the other worse. As it was, Clinton avoided getting kicked out of office and avoided being sent to jail. Given the way things were, that was a remarkable outcome. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/22 "2005-01-21T19:54:13Z")
> [@Demorian](#): > > I’m unfamiliar with the Clinton scandal, as I mostly avoid nonsense. May I ask you to cite which law and its text? It was the Violence Against Women Act of 1994 which made the prior conduct of sexual harassment defendants relevant in some instances. Essentially, Paula Jones’ lawyers argued that Clinton’s alleged conduct toward Ms. Jones constituted an “assault,” allowing them to explore his history regarding other female subordinates to try to establish a pattern which would tend to support Ms. Jones’ allegations. The judge deferred deciding on that point prior to depositions, essentially saying ‘let’s see what turns up and I’ll decide later what to allow at trial and what to exclude as irrelevant.’ Clinton perjured himself during the deposition related to that. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/23 "2005-01-21T20:06:53Z")
He should have said- “Yes, although technically Ms. Lewinsky and I did not engage in coitus, we did have an improper relationship that included other sexual activity. I made a mistake and am sorry for doing this.” That would have ended it right there. Similarly, Grover Cleveland co-opted the scandal about his illegitimate child by admitting to it and accepting responsibility. That didn’t stop his election, and if Clinton came clean off the bat then there would have been no lasting fallout. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/24 "2005-01-21T20:16:40Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > The judge deferred deciding on that point prior to depositions, essentially saying ‘let’s see what turns up and I’ll decide later what to allow at trial and what to exclude as irrelevant.’ Since, despite the plaintiff’s strenuous efforts, \*nothing \* relevant came up, she dismissed the case. The damage to Clinton’s reputation, the entire point of Scaife’s effort after all as well as Starr’s, was of course successful. The strenuous efforts of the hate crowd, e.g. **manny** , to blame him for everything they can think of anyway continue to this day, and doubtless will until their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/25 "2005-01-21T20:24:11Z")
I’m still waiting for a non-partisan and _logical_ explaination of why an “independent” investigation into alleged real-estate shenanagans legitimately turned into a probe of the President’s sex life, and was not just a trolling expedition for some dirt to throw at Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/26 "2005-01-21T20:26:59Z")
**Johnny** , something else to chew on: His personal popularity, and approval ratings, were essentially unaffected throughout the years of the get-Clinton campaign. Even while being impeached by the opposition party, his approval stayed in the 60-70 percent range. > [@](#): > > The professor submits that had Clinton submitted an apologia within 48 hours of the Lewinsky scandal breaking, Ken Star would still be a nobody and Bill Clinton would have a legacy. It didn’t matter and wouldn’t have ultimately mattered. Starr is and will remain a nobody, on his good days. Those who remember him even now consider him a sad, lonely little pervert, and those are the people who admire him. Clinton’s legacies, most notably in achieving a sustainable budget surplus, and in the ending of genocide in the Balkans, the Ireland peace accords, and even every possible step in an Israeli-Palestine treaty, are unaffected. The strong majority of Americans knew this was essentially a harassment effort and dismissed it as such, even then, even if it required excusing his being a horndog. The minority was and is not convinceable anyway. Ergo, it didn’t matter what he said. ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/27 "2005-01-21T21:18:32Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’m still waiting for a non-partisan and _logical_ explaination of why an “independent” investigation into alleged real-estate shenanagans legitimately turned into a probe of the President’s sex life, and was not just a trolling expedition for some dirt to throw at Clinton. I agree with your view. I do know what the “link” was. It was our old friend Linda Tripp. Tripp had given a statement relative to the Whitewater investigation long before the Monica story because Tripp had worked for Foster, who was believed to have had some charge of the Whitewater documents. I don’t recall the exact timing, it may have been before she or Bill meet Monica. Anyway, she reasserted herself into the matter with the tapes and gave the Jones attorneys the heads up before Bill testified. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/28 "2005-01-21T21:37:51Z")
He should’ve said that he committed disgraceful conduct for a man who had been admitted to the bar, and that his inability to actually tell the truth while under oath in a deposition should not be used to drag Monica Lewinsky’s name through the mud. He should also have said that any fallout from his failure to live up to the oath he swore just before that deposition should’ve landed directly at his feet. Instead of trying to pretend it was about sex and shove a lot of scorn on Monica Lewinsky, he should’ve taken the fall for what he really did: commit perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/29 "2005-01-21T21:45:33Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > It was the Violence Against Women Act of 1994 which made the prior conduct of sexual harassment defendants relevant in some instances. Essentially, Paula Jones’ lawyers argued that Clinton’s alleged conduct toward Ms. Jones constituted an “assault,” allowing them to explore his history regarding other female subordinates to try to establish a pattern which would tend to support Ms. Jones’ allegations. The judge deferred deciding on that point prior to depositions, essentially saying ‘let’s see what turns up and I’ll decide later what to allow at trial and what to exclude as irrelevant.’ Clinton perjured himself during the deposition related to that. But I could have sworn that the things alleged by Jones happend before Clinton was in the Whitehouse. How are his actions after his association with Jones be considered history (to the Jones charge) or a pattern? Lewinsky was years after Jones. If I had an affair now, that was secret and someone from 10 years ago came up and falsly charged me, I don’t see how my current affair would be relavent. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/30 "2005-01-21T21:48:29Z")
How about the truth? “I know that what I did would have cost anybody else in a responsible position his job. I had a sexual relationship with someone who reported to me, which is sexual harassment at best and a gross abuse of power at worst. If anyone working for me did something like this, I’d fire them on the spot, so the only responsible thing for me to do would be to offer my resignation. However, being President makes me above the law, and I really want to stay in office long enough to sell some Presidential pardons for big piles of money on my last day in office, so I think I’ll lie about it instead and see if I can get every newscaster in America talking about oral sex on the 7:00 news.” ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/31 "2005-01-21T22:05:36Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > "I know that what I did would have cost anybody else in a responsible position his job. It would? There’s office relationships all the time. A Boy Scout leader I once had made the joke, “a secretary isn’t installed until she’s screwed to the desk,” FFS. Hell, [http://www.corporatemofo.com/](http://www.corporatemofo.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/32 "2005-01-21T22:48:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The strong majority of Americans knew this was essentially a harassment effort and dismissed it as such, even then, even if it required excusing his being a horndog. The minority was and is not convinceable anyway. Ergo, it didn’t matter what he said. Considering how close the 2000 election was, I don’t buy that it didn’t matter. I think that if the whole thing had been diffused more quickly, it’s entirely reasonable to say the election might’ve turned out differently. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/33 "2005-01-21T23:30:03Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > But > > I could have sworn that the things alleged by Jones happend before Clinton was in the Whitehouse. > > How are his actions after his association with Jones be considered history (to the Jones charge) or a pattern? Lewinsky was years after Jones. > > If I had an affair now, that was secret and someone from 10 years ago came up and falsly charged me, I don’t see how my current affair would be relavent. Don’t ask me – I agree with you! 🙂 Unfortunately, legally speaking we are both incorrect; it is legally relevant and that’s why Jones’ attorneys were allowed to go down the road they did. And the reason we’re wrong, the reason it was legally relevant, is because of a law which President Clinton personally signed to much fanfare. Euripides ain’t got nuthin’ on reality. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/34 "2005-01-21T23:31:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The strenuous efforts of the hate crowd, e.g. **manny** , to blame him for everything they can think of anyway continue to this day, and doubtless will until their deaths. Thank you for your thoughtul contribution. ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/35 "2005-01-21T23:38:42Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Thank you for your thoughtul contribution. Well, won’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Demorian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demorian/32/7273_2.png) [@Demorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demorian)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/36 "2005-01-21T23:40:06Z")
> [@Demorian](#): > > Well, won’t you? I mean, strictly speaking for myself, my general hatred and loathing towards Mr. Bush is gonna be one of those things that follows me around for a while, and I don’t exactly expect to become a neocon on my deathbed… ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/37 "2005-01-21T23:50:55Z")
My fellow Americans. I engaged in an inappropriate sexual affair with a former White House Intern. I have comitted an act of marital infidelity. It was immoral, it was wrong, and I am ashamed of myself for this transgression, for which I bear full and sole responsibility. I regret the pain having to make this admission will cause my family and friends; I would not, under normal circumstances, be confronting you all with matters of such a prurient nature. Unfortunately, those who oppose me have no such reservations. I’m telling you this at this time, and in this manner, because I am left with no other option. The office of the special prosecutor has obviously seen fit to investigate my personal transgression, and will doubtless make such matters public knowledge imminently. It is my sincere hope that, with this admission, I may be left in some reasonable amount of peace do what I can to mend the rifts this will cause in my family, the negative consequences of which only I am deserving. It is also my hope to put a stop, once and for all, to the seemingly endless and boundaryless effort to impugn me for any offense, real or imagined. I maintain, to this day, that I am innocent of the wrongdoing for which the special prosecutor was originally retained to investigate, and am confident I will be acquitted of all charges against me related to that issue. I hope that we can all agree, there are more weighty matters that should be occupying the time and efforts of the Congress and the President of the United States. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/38 "2005-01-21T23:52:26Z")
Ah, gotcha. You’re unfamiliar with the fact that **Elvis** is a physiologically incapable of telling the truth about anything whatsoever. In fact, I am not a Clinton hater. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/39 "2005-01-22T00:04:43Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’m still waiting for a non-partisan and _logical_ explaination of why an “independent” investigation into alleged real-estate shenanagans legitimately turned into a probe of the President’s sex life, and was not just a trolling expedition for some dirt to throw at Clinton. Because the [Clinton Administration requested it](http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/government/clintoncrisis/renopetition.html). > [@Court TV](#): > > On January 16, 1998 Attorney General Janet Reno petitioned a panel of three federal judges to have Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr’s authority expanded to look into allegations that former White House intern Monica Lewinsky may have “submitted a false affidavit and suborned perjury.” > > Reno argued that Starr should look into the matter because “potential subjects and witnesses in this matter overlap with those in his ongoing investigation” – a possible reference to his reported investigation of Vernon Jordan and President Clinton and consulting contracts arranged for former Justice Department official and long-time Clinton friend Webster Hubbell. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872/40 "2005-01-22T00:31:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Starr is and will remain a nobody, on his good days. Those who remember him even now consider him a sad, lonely little pervert, and those are the people who admire him. Do your fingers stink after typing this? Starr’s legal career [speaks for itself](http://www.fcplfoundation.org/advisoryboardbios/kenstarr.htm). He was recently appointed the Dean of Pepperdine’s law school. That’s not a position typically given to a “sad, lonely pervert.” I was no fan of the indictment when it was handed down, but I’m even less of a fan of people who think it’s a good thing to demonize and slander your political opposition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-speech-clinton-shouldve-given/285872.md?page=3)