# The spherical\* Earth conspiracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226 "2017-01-03T13:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/41 "2017-01-03T18:56:30Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > [snip] … We’re through the looking glass here, people. This is the black kitten’s fault … as the white kitten was engaged with her bath at the time … ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/42 "2017-01-03T19:33:56Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, there’s Isaiah 40:22, which says: > So yeah, that implies a flat (or at least single-sided), circular earth with sky canopy over it. No, it doesn’t. That’s like saying that the world is flat because a map of the world is flat. A circle **necessarily implies** a sphere. Anybody who claims that the Bible supports a flat earth is taking verses out of context. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/43 "2017-01-03T19:56:26Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > No, it doesn’t. That’s like saying that the world is flat because a map of the world is flat. A circle **necessarily implies** a sphere. > > Anybody who claims that the Bible supports a flat earth is taking verses out of context. It’s a tough argument either way … starting with the (Aramaic -\>) Greek -\> Latin -\> English translation issues and considering the mystical nature of Isaiah, we can finish up with prescription strength stupid pills and reach the Flat Earth interpretation. As counter-argument, I think **Mangetout** post works well … there’s enough ambiguity in any proper prophecy to reach any conclusion … I don’t happen to believe it but that’s just me … ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/44 "2017-01-03T19:57:32Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > …Anybody who claims that the Bible supports a flat earth is taking verses out of context. Verses out of context? That’s impossible! Stone him!! All verses are inerrantly true in isolation. In fact the words, letters, and individuals strokes are themselves separately inerrant. “I” is the first letter of the English language bible and therefore the first letter of all human alphabets for all time; even for those languages that don’t \*have \*alphabets. Yes I’m kidding. But the true believers believe stuff like this. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/45 "2017-01-03T21:42:58Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, there’s Isaiah 40:22, which says: > So yeah, that implies a flat (or at least single-sided), circular earth with sky canopy over it. Except! Isaiah 11:12 says “He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From **the four corners of the earth**.” So the earth is clearly a square! ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/46 "2017-01-03T21:49:22Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Er … Umm … [**Geoid**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid) is the correct term for the shape of the Earth. I’m not sure defining the shape of the Earth as “Earth-shaped” is particularly useful. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/47 "2017-01-03T22:14:25Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Except! Isaiah 11:12 says “He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From **the four corners of the earth**.” So the earth is clearly a square! Quadrilateral, please. And that assumes there are no curved boundaries mucking things up. 😛 Just a note: the bit noted previously about being able to show all the nations of the Earth from the top of a mountain does tend to support the idea that the Earth is flat(ish). Either that, or at that point in time, there weren’t (won’t be? haven’t been?) many nations, and all were located near the mountain. My question: why does anyone bother trying to figure out what motivation or thought process people have who are advocating an idea manifestly incompatible with known facts? As well ask why someone thinks marmite is edible. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/48 "2017-01-03T22:45:38Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > No, it doesn’t. That’s like saying that the world is flat because a map of the world is flat. A circle **necessarily implies** a sphere. > > Anybody who claims that the Bible supports a flat earth is taking verses out of context. On the second thing: Hold on, hold on. This is waaaay too common of an argument. “My interpretation of the Bible is The One True one and any other interpretation of The Bible is heretical.” In case you hadn’t noticed Christianity (and all other religions and their holy texts) is incredibly fragmented regarding interpreting stuff. This should be completely obvious. So saying “I’m right, you’re wrong.” about such matters doesn’t hold a drop of water, logic-wise. It’s _all_ about interpretations. So people really do interpret passages of the Bible as saying the Earth is flat and their interpretation cannot be dismissed so easily. Esp. with that passage from Matthew: You can’t see all the nations of the world from a high mountain unless the Earth is flat. On the first thing: The Flat Earth types cosmological diagram shows a big dome (behind which the Flood waters were held) which meets the Earth and stops there. So it is a hemisphere. Not a sphere. Highly rooted in Biblical sources, not so much in logic or physics. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/49 "2017-01-03T22:54:52Z")
The Earth is _not_ geoid-shaped. The geoid is the equipotential surface which matches sea level, but continued through the continents as well. It’s a lot smoother than the actual surface: A mountain will cause a rise in the level of the geoid, but only a slight one, not nearly as high as the actual mountain. The geoid is a better approximation to the Earth’s shape than an oblate spheroid is, but only a little better, not enough better to justify the much more complicated description of the shape. An approximation should be easy to describe. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/50 "2017-01-03T23:33:50Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > \*yes, oblate spheroid, technically. One of my favorite throwaway lines in a news article: [Police, firefighters called in after flat Earth debate turns heated](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/flat-earth-debate-leads-to-fire-police-call-1.3634692) _It’s not clear if anyone at the campfire put forth the argument that the Earth’s equatorial bulge makes it not perfectly round, but instead a shape known as an oblate spheroid._ ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/51 "2017-01-03T23:48:20Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, there’s Isaiah 40:22, which says: > > > [@](#): > > > > It is he[God] that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in > > So yeah, that implies a flat (or at least single-sided), circular earth with sky canopy over it. > [@Skammer](#): > > Except! Isaiah 11:12 says “He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From **the four corners of the earth**.” So the earth is clearly a square! There’s actually [more than that](http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Four-Corners) in the Bible about 4 corners of the Earth. Since everything in the Bible is true, obviously the Earth is a four-cornered circle… ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/52 "2017-01-04T01:00:09Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There’s actually [more than that](http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Four-Corners) in the Bible about 4 corners of the Earth. Since everything in the Bible is true, obviously the Earth is a four-cornered circle… > [@](#): > > You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself. > > Deu 22:12 From this passage I’m getting an oval Earth … not a circle … well, an oval of pseudo-geopotential … I suppose _technically_ mountains and valleys only make it “look” like an oval … but circle is right out I should say … ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/53 "2017-01-04T02:10:37Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Er … Umm … [**Geoid**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoid) is the correct term for the shape of the … Geoid? Come on, I just learned to pronounce and spell Oblate Spheroid. Bob ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/54 "2017-01-04T02:15:39Z")
This is what I get for trying to be a smart arse. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/55 "2017-01-04T02:26:30Z")
One thought I had was…if the south pole is surrounded by an infinite plain of ice…why not explore outward, as far as we can? You know those old math problems, where you go out a way and leave a fuel cache, then use that to go farther, to leave more distant fuel caches, etc. Let’s try to make and beat new records. Who has gone farthest out into the infinite wasteland? I asked this of Charles K. Johnson (in correspondence) back when I had a membership in the International Flat Earth Research Society (I thought it would be fun: it was not.) He told me I was a fool for wanting to do something that extravagantly pointless. (Yeah, yeah, he oughta know!) ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/56 "2017-01-04T02:57:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > No, it is a [hollow sphere](http://www.ourhollowearth.com). Didn’t we have an honest-to-gosh hollow earth promoter for a while here on the SDMB a few years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/57 "2017-01-04T08:31:14Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > This is waaaay too common of an argument. “My interpretation of the Bible is The One True one and any other interpretation of The Bible is heretical.” Oh, it’s worse than that. The argument runs more like “I don’t interpret the Bible. I read it literally, and everyone else interprets it. Therefore, I’m correct and everyone else is trying to deceive you.” The religious objections to Postmodernism and the idea that all meaning comes from interpretation are because that gives the game away, you see: It lays bare the fact _everyone_ is interpreting, there is literally _no such thing_ as a literal reading, and, therefore, _nobody_ can claim the absolutely incorruptible position of being the one who reads the Bible literally. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/58 "2017-01-04T10:51:29Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Didn’t we have an honest-to-gosh hollow earth promoter for a while here on the SDMB a few years ago? There was a poster named **Karol** who argued that not only was Earth hollow, but that we live on the inside. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/59 "2017-01-04T14:11:22Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Oh, it’s worse than that. The argument runs more like “I don’t interpret the Bible. I read it literally, and everyone else interprets it. Therefore, I’m correct and everyone else is trying to deceive you.” > > The religious objections to Postmodernism and the idea that all meaning comes from interpretation are because that gives the game away, you see: It lays bare the fact _everyone_ is interpreting, there is literally _no such thing_ as a literal reading, and, therefore, _nobody_ can claim the absolutely incorruptible position of being the one who reads the Bible literally. Sounds like me … nice catch … ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/60 "2017-01-04T14:23:53Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > One thought I had was…if the south pole is surrounded by an infinite plain of ice…why not explore outward, as far as we can? It’s been done, but no one who went that far ever came back. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Interestingly, [the first image of Earth from space](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/08/the-first-image-of-earth-taken-from-space-its-not-what-you-think/260755/) (and many [subsequent such photos](https://www.nasa.gov/news/highlights/john_mengel_pioneer.html)) predate the establishment of NASA by about a decade, and seem to pretty clearly indicate a curved surface… That’s just what they want you to think. Photoshop rulez! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226.md?page=4)