# The spherical\* Earth conspiracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226 "2017-01-03T13:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/81 "2017-01-04T21:44:11Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > An infinite flat earth of uniform density and thickness would become a black hole, since the event horizon radius increases linearly with the mass, whereas the mass increases as the radius squared, so the mass will always catch up to the mass needed for a black hole. Oh! Superb point! I’d never heard anyone point that out before! > [@watchwolf49](#): > > This might seem a silly question … but with whom are we arguing with? Loons. People “out there” who really do believe this stuff. (The Bad Astronomy web site used to have regular visits from Tychonians/Stationary Earth fans.) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/82 "2017-01-04T22:14:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > An infinite flat earth of uniform density and thickness would become a black hole, since the event horizon radius increases linearly with the mass, whereas the mass increases as the radius squared, so the mass will always catch up to the mass needed for a black hole. Even if you posit a mass which, for some magical reason, won’t collapse on itself and will therefore remain an infinite plane, you still end up with a black hole-like effect, because light can never leave the plane, so when you looked up, you’d see a different part of the plane. This is because light would follow a path curved by the mass of the plane, such that light reflected from the ground at any angle off a perfect vertical (that is, essentially _all_ light reflected from the ground) would follow a parabolic path which would, inevitably, make it intersect with a different part of the plane. The horizon would, unless obscured by mist or something, rise up, as if you were at the bottom of a huge bowl, from all of the off-angle light which curved back downwards to meet your eyes. But there is a way to distinguish the “flat Earth” and the “live inside a hollow Earth” theories: The hollow Earth would have zero gravity on the inside, because it all cancels [(more detailed formulation)](http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Mechanics/sphshell2.html), whereas the flat Earth would have _increasing_ gravity the further you got from the ground, because you’d have more mass within _x_ degrees of “directly below you” the higher you got. (That is, imagine a point on the bottom of your spacecraft with an imaginary line projecting downwards from that point at a one degree angle off straight down. Now use that line to draw a circle on the ground. When the ship is on the ground, that’s a tiny little circle. When the ship is a mile high, the circle is much bigger, because one degree off vertical represents more displacement by the time you’ve projected the line all the way back down to the ground.) Therefore, an infinite flat Earth would have infinite gravity at an infinite distance from the surface. I guess it’s pretty much a black hole regardless. Needless to say, a somewhat less extreme version of both of these experiments work equally well for a finite-sized flat Earth. I mean, _literally everything_ in physics militates against these flat Earth yahoos, but when they can be refuted that easily with simple thought experiments about gravity, it’s clear the sincere ones aren’t applying any rational thought at all to their beliefs, and they probably regard that as a signal virtue and a sign of great moral fortitude. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/83 "2017-01-04T22:33:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > An infinite flat earth would attract straight downward at all points above it, anywhere – Do any flat Earthers posit an infinite Earth? Be surprised if any do. I thought most had a disk in mind. Elephants and turtle optional. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/84 "2017-01-04T22:55:42Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > This might seem a silly question … but with whom are we arguing with? > [@Trinopus](#): > > [snip] … Loons. People “out there” who really do believe this stuff. (The Bad Astronomy web site used to have regular visits from Tychonians/Stationary Earth fans.) There can’t be that many … there’s more information about a Flat Earth here in just this _one thread_ than I’ve come across in my entire life anywhere outside the SDMB … and I’ve lived most of my live on the Left Coast … I can see why Bad Astronomer attracts such goofballs … to be honest … **Unca Phil** is fond of his weasel words … and birds of a feather flock together … it took me two minutes to find a horrific error [“Flushed with Pride”](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/coriolis.html) … you’ll never find this kind of tripe in any of **The Master’s** articles … ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/85 "2017-01-04T23:03:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s the Big Globe industry. They have their tentacles everywhere. But sales of globes has crashed badly since Google Earth came out. Oh, waaaaait . . . ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/86 "2017-01-04T23:12:49Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Do any flat Earthers posit an infinite Earth? Be surprised if any do. I thought most had a disk in mind. Elephants and turtle optional. Charles Johnson did…sort of. He posited the Antarctic wall of ice, surrounded by an infinite wasteland of ice. (Like most “infinite” notions, it fails any possible empirical test. Suppose it was only a trillion-mile – or trillion light-year – wasteland. How would anyone ever know?) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/87 "2017-01-04T23:16:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Trinopus** : > > An infinite flat earth would attract straight downward at all points above it, anywhere – and the force of attraction would be proportional to the inverse of the distance, not the inverse of the square of the distance as we know it to be with respect to spheres. Actually, it’d be constant with distance, not falling off at all. And to forestall the objections about it becoming a black hole, when we say “an infinite flat earth”, what we really mean is “a flat earth with extent in both directions much greater than the distance away from it”, or equivalently, that we’re only looking at distances small compared to dimensions of the flat object. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/88 "2017-01-05T01:02:45Z")
Why are you speculating on the gravitational characteristics of a flat earth? Gravity, in the Newtonian/Copernican model, would be a very different force than in a flat geocentric model (I assume that flat implies geocentric). I suspect we are held down on this flat surface because it is at the bottom, so we naturally stay down here. The gravity force thing makes no sense in that context – it is probably just the weight of the firmament above us that pushes us down. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/89 "2017-01-05T02:37:16Z")
[Belly-Button Is the Signature Of Your Personal Creator - I Believe Her Name Mama. Pastor Told His Flock That God Created All Of Them - Truth Was That They All had Mama Made Belly Buttons, Church Was Full Of Liars. ``` Earth Has 4 Days In Same 24 Hrs., 1 Day God Was Wrong. ``` Einstein Was ONEist Brain. Try My Belly-Button Logic. ``` No God Knows About 4 Days, It Is Evil To Ignore 4 Days, ``` Does Your Teacher Know ?]([http://timecube.2enp.com](http://timecube.2enp.com)) We miss Gene Ray, Doctor of Cubism and Wisest Human. He made less sense than any other nutty conspiracy theory and was beloved for it despite his proto-Trumpish racist and misogynistic screeds that were ahead of their time. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/90 "2017-01-05T04:23:05Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > So you’re telling me time zones don’t exist?? Who’s behind \*that \*scam??? Big Time ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/91 "2017-01-05T14:14:56Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Big Time Look at my circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/92 "2017-01-07T18:41:59Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Except! Isaiah 11:12 says “He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From **the four corners of the earth**.” So the earth is clearly a square! And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Yisrä´ël יִשׂרָאֵל (sp?), and gather together the dispersed of Yæhûðà יְהוּדָה(sp?) from the four corners of the earth. w’näsä nëš laGôyim w’äšafnid’chëy yis’räël ûn’futzôt y’hûdähy’qaBëtz mëar’Ba Kan’fôt hääretz. So from the north south east and west which would be a diamond? Diamonds aren’t flat. Anyways it’s a human phrase, and human phrasing isn’t always logical Africa is neither deep, nor dark, and there is no such thing as high atop the world, and up is not actually up but outwards and down is inwards. And technically there have been several times, and will be times again, when “four corners of the earth” would be logically correct, if earth = land and ocean = not land (If you dont have your heart too set on a literal square) Perhaps on Ur, or Columbia, or maybe Rodina, or Pangea, and maybe again in NovoPangea ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/93 "2017-01-07T19:15:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Oh, yes, there is one more group of revisionists who hold that the universe is “inside out.” Not only is the earth hollow, but all the stars and galaxies are inside it, toward the middle! What’s really fun is that they accept all the conventional measurements and calculations of astronomy, because the inversion is mathematical. So when you measure the distance to Alpha Centauri, you get a perfectly valid answer; the answer just has to be run through their equations to derive the “real” answer. > > This has the lovely advantage of not being falsifiable in any way. Wait, i am confused, unless we are talking about the edgar rice burroughs book… Earth is hollow 8,000 land miles takes me round abouts half way around the inside wall of hollow earth But a straight shot across the middle takes me 10 light years to get half way? Aside from there being in the a middle Willie Wonka and the Worm Hole factory by what math does that work exactly? Im afraid to even ask how they rectify the issue of housing say a mass 1b object in the middle of a mass 1m object? and smashing it to the circumference of like the yellow stone caldera with out everything going into critical mass and becoming its own big bang theory? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/94 "2017-01-07T20:07:53Z")
**Weisshund** : Exactly. The math is easy; just invert everything around the center of the world. The closer you get to the center, the closer you come to dividing by zero, so, for instance, the orbit of Jupiter would be microscopically close to the center, and the Milky Way Galaxy even closer. It’s purely a mathematical conceit, unprovable and untestable, and, to these weirdos, only “known” by some screwy revelation of truth. (How do “ordinary” hollow earth fanatics “know” that the world is hollow?) (At least the flat earthers have common-sense – “down is down; how can down be up?” – and certain Bible verses. What the hell do hollow earthers have?) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/95 "2017-01-07T20:17:57Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Anyways it’s a human phrase, and human phrasing isn’t always logical > Africa is neither deep, nor dark, and there is no such thing as high atop the world, and up is not actually up but outwards and down is inwards. The enemy’s gate is down. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/96 "2017-01-08T00:40:30Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Anyways it’s a human phrase, and human phrasing isn’t always logical Revelation 7:1 > [@](#): > > After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. Sounds like a literal 4 corners, not a figurative expression. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/97 "2017-01-08T01:23:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Well, there’s Isaiah 40:22, which says: > So yeah, that implies a flat (or at least single-sided), circular earth with sky canopy over it. A ball is also a circle though And one problem with using the good old KJV is it is in english. it loses a lot in translation from a language that has not been spoken in the biblical form for quite a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/98 "2017-01-08T01:42:29Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Revelation 7:1 > > Sounds like a literal 4 corners, not a figurative expression. Not really, people still use the same phrases today and the 4 winds are normally the N S E and W winds. People today refer to austrailia being down under, Antarctica as the bottom of the word. They aren’t it would be totally illogical, if you took it literally you’d assume the speaker was an utter moron. And revelations, which is highly figurative (which probably makes a heck of a lot more sense than hitting john with a 10,000 page wall of text that someone totally wont get the meaning of retranslated 30 times several thousand years later) Which probably does not make it a good example to use. Plus were are picking a figure of speech phrase out of something to stand on its own like it was meant to mean something on its own, which it probably was not. There aren’t any passages in the bible that say _ **though shalt not saileth to the edge of thine world for surely thouest shall falleth over the edge and be’th forever lost in the void of heaven, so sayeth the Lord God.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/99 "2017-01-08T01:43:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The enemy’s gate is down. I am confused, when did we land in WWII Soviet Russia? And am i carrying the bullets or the rifle? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226/100 "2017-01-08T02:19:17Z")
Yeah, but when that old guy told Dr. McCoy the world was hollow, he died. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-spherical-earth-conspiracy/776226.md?page=6)