# 'The Star Wars saga is really about Darth Vader' ... Huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400 "2005-05-04T17:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Grimpen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grimpen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grimpen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400/121 "2005-05-19T15:21:35Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Darth presumably is simply a short form of “ **DAR** k lord of the si **TH** ”. So Obi-Wan was just calling him by a title he disrespected. Coming in a little late on this - That’s certainly how the movie now runs. But that is certainly not how it felt to me when I saw Star Wars on its first release, before later developments. For what it’s worth, in my opinion, turning “Darth” into a title undermined one of the best scenes in the original movie. Obi-Wan is facing Vader in a climactic battle, sacrificing his own life to give Luke and Leia a chance to escape. He, veteran Jedi, is facing his own protege who has become a menace. And he says “You can’t win, Darth.” If it’s a name, he’s saying with some regret and perhaps even affection: “You can’t win, Johnny.” If it’s a title, he’s saying “You can’t win, Reichskommandant.” In my opinion, the second reading is uninteresting bravado, while the first is poignant; the master offering one final lesson to his erring student. I concede that, as the series now stands, “Darth” is a title. But I think that change is one of the indications Lucas lost the track of his own story. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400/122 "2005-05-19T15:48:59Z")
> [@Grimpen](#): > > In my opinion, the second reading is uninteresting bravado, while the first is poignant; the master offering one final lesson to his erring student. I concede that, as the series now stands, “Darth” is a title. But I think that change is one of the indications Lucas lost the track of his own story. I completely agree with you. And the exact point at which this mistake occurred is when Lucas decided that the name Obi-Wan knew him by was “Anakin” and not “Darth.” Think about it – The way it is now, in that poignant moment that you describe, Obi-Wan is using not Vader’s _real_ name, the name he called him as his pupil, but the pseudonym he took on after betraying the good guys. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400/123 "2005-05-19T16:54:30Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > It seems a bit silly to bring logic and debating terms into the Cafe, but if we must, the salient term would be “Straw Man.” > > Nobody is defending the notion that Darth Vader was intended to be the main character of the movies. > > Lucas has never said that Darth Vader was supposed to be the main character of the movies. It’s an indefensible notion – but that’s okay, because nobody’s championing it. An important distinction has to be made between being the “main character” and the story being “about” a character. While the original movie probably didn’t envision DV being the central focus of later movies, the story, as a whole (with all the movies - including the original movie) has become about DV. But that’s OK, even if he wasn’t the main character of the movie. An example of this can be found in Mary Poppins. The movie (I didn’t read the book - it may be different) isn’t really about Mary Poppins or the kids - it’s really about the transformation of George Banks. George Banks, however, is not the main character of the movie - Mary, the kids and Bert all rank before him in terms of screen time and importance to the story. But, in the end, it’s really all about Mr. Banks. (Boy, do I feel odd comparing MP to SW…) Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400/124 "2005-05-19T17:09:43Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > (Boy, do I feel odd comparing MP to SW…) Oh, I don’t know… > [@](#): > > Han: Begging your pardon, your Royalness, but the one _my_ heart goes out to is your father. There he is in that cold, heartless Star Destroyer day after day, hemmed in by legions of cold, heartless Stormtroopers. I don’t like to see any living thing caged up. > > Leia: Father, in a cage? > > Han: They makes cages in all sizes and shapes, you know. Star Destroyer-shaped, some of 'em, meditation-chambers and all. ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400/125 "2005-05-19T19:07:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I completely agree with you. And the exact point at which this mistake occurred is when Lucas decided that the name Obi-Wan knew him by was “Anakin” and not “Darth.” > > Think about it – The way it is now, in that poignant moment that you describe, Obi-Wan is using not Vader’s _real_ name, the name he called him as his pupil, but the pseudonym he took on after betraying the good guys. Well, Obi-Wan does later tell Luke, in defending his little white lie, that the Anakin Skywalker that he knew was (in essence) dead. So, when he confronted Vader, it would make sense for him to address him as his Dark Side persona, since the Anakin he knew was gone. > [@Grimpen](#): > > In my opinion, the second reading is uninteresting bravado, while the first is poignant… Given the two choices–poignant dialogue or unintersting bravado–which do you think George Lucas would write? Have you SEEN Eps I and II? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Grimpen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Grimpen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grimpen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400/126 "2005-05-19T19:32:36Z")
> [@aerodave](#): > > Given the two choices–poignant dialogue or unintersting bravado–which do you think George Lucas would write? Have you SEEN Eps I and II? > > 😛 A pertinent point… I looked forward to episode I (yes, I can be gullible) and never bothered with episode II. But the sad thing is, the original Star Wars was actually good. It’s not like George Lucas never did know how to tell a good story. Granted, everything in it was derivative. And, as it happened, I’m fairly confident I saw a novelization before the movie was released; I looked it over and set it back as hack garbage. But walking out of the theatre, my reaction was that the movie was rather like Frankenstein’s Monster. All made out of spare parts stitched together, but _it’s alive!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-star-wars-saga-is-really-about-darth-vader-huh/302400.md?page=6)