# The 'start' key should be in the same level of hell as the 'insert' key **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807 "2004-10-23T21:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/21 "2004-10-24T22:46:00Z")
> [@Tentacle Monster](#): > > I haven’t used Windows in years, so I try to redirect them. But if they ask me how to turn off the computer, I tell 'em “See that key with the Windows logo on your keyboard? Hit it. Now hit U, then hit Enter.” Saves me a lot of headache. You need to update your instructions. Windows, U, Enter puts the machine into Standby mode. Windows, U, U turns the sucker off. That should hold them at bay for a few more years! ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/22 "2004-10-24T22:52:17Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > You need to update your instructions. Windows, U, Enter puts the machine into Standby mode. Windows, U, U turns the sucker off. That should hold them at bay for a few more years! Depends. In Win 2000, Windows - U - Enter chooses whichever was chosen last time. Not as useful. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/23 "2004-10-24T22:54:46Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Depends. In Win 2000, Windows - U - Enter chooses whichever was chosen last time. Not as useful. Might actually be the same in XP, since I do Standby most often. I confess, I don’t have the patience to test it by going through a series of Turn-offs, Restarts, etc. Shoot me! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/24 "2004-10-24T23:00:17Z")
Windows - U U always works in XP. The problem in 2000 is that the option is a drop-down menu, with the last-used option selected by default. (Windows - U - U does nothing in 2000.) ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/25 "2004-10-24T23:38:22Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Cordless _optical_ mice. Wonderful things, but they eat batteries. Gotta go rechargable. Of course, I’m eyeing a Logitech, blue tooth, laser mouse, all cordless. However, paying €200 for mouse and keyboard is insane. I’ll wait for the price to come down. I’ve been cordless for a couple of years now. There’s no turning back. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/26 "2004-10-24T23:46:22Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Windows - U U always works in XP. All it does for me is bring up Windows Utility — something about Magnifier, Reader, and some other accessibility tool. We’ve got XP Pro. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/27 "2004-10-24T23:51:45Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > All it does for me is bring up Windows Utility — something about Magnifier, Reader, and some other accessibility tool. We’ve got XP Pro. Windows - _let go_ - U - _let go_ - U But you’re right, Windows+U gives the Utility Manager :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/28 "2004-10-24T23:54:24Z")
Otey dotey. I’ll try it. If no response within five minutes, it worked. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/29 "2004-10-25T02:06:36Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > Of course, I’m eyeing a Logitech, blue tooth, laser mouse, all cordless. > However, paying €200 for mouse and keyboard is insane. I’ll wait for the price to come down. > > I’ve been cordless for a couple of years now. There’s no turning back. Unless you have other things already using bluetooth, there’s no point in spending that much for that. I’m using the Logitech Cordless MX Duo. Except for the stupid F-Lock shit and the fact that the base station is rather large (to recharge the batteries), I’m happy with it. Though I never use any of the extra buttons on the keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/30 "2004-10-25T07:20:35Z")
I know, and I don’t. But the number pad is separate, the keyboard is very slim and the keys themselves are just… perfect, I guess. BTW, my current Logitech keyboard has the INS key tucked away safely among the PrtScr and Pause keys. And I like the windows key. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/31 "2004-10-25T09:13:55Z")
Windows keyboards suck. End of story. Aren’t you glad I cleared this up for you? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/32 "2004-10-25T10:27:43Z")
There’s a very simple way to turn off an XP computer. Press the soft power button on the front of the case. It sends a signal to the CPU to start the normal shutdown procedure, then power off. If you have a hard switch on the back, don’t use that unless your computer has crashed so badly the soft button doesn’t respond. Anyone who likes the Windows key is clearly not a gamer. Since games are the only reasonable applications to run on a computer, I must question these people’s sanity. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/33 "2004-10-25T13:24:42Z")
I use a drawing tablet and pen. It comes with a mouse that works on top of the tablet. No batteries required, but a really good tablet can be many hundreds of dollars. And some software (games, usually) cannot work with a tablet, which kind of sucks, but is understandable. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/34 "2004-10-25T14:03:35Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > Of course, I’m eyeing a Logitech, blue tooth, laser mouse, all cordless. > However, paying €200 for mouse and keyboard is insane. I’ll wait for the price to come down. > > I’ve been cordless for a couple of years now. There’s no turning back. I got a free Logitech MX1000 and tried it out. The batteries last a lot longer (probably 3-4 weeks) than the MX700. I don’t personally like that series of mice, because they’re too big for my hands, but my husband loves them, especially with the Ratpadz GS mousepad. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/35 "2004-10-25T21:35:38Z")
I’ve been using WindowsKey+E for _years_, but never knew that the Windows Key alone could open the Start menu! :smack: I also didn’t know about WindowsKey+D, which will come in very handy because I deleted the desktop icon from my quick launch toolbar and have rued the day ever since. Thanks, **GorillaMan**! ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/36 "2004-10-25T22:43:44Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Hey, I LOVE that start key (I actually think it’s called the “windows” key), you get lots of nifty shortcuts with it, like win + E for bringing up the windows explorer, win + D/M for minimising all windows, and win up enter right enter for shutdown. > [@Misnomer](#): > > I also didn’t know about WindowsKey+D, which will come in very handy because I deleted the desktop icon from my quick launch toolbar and have rued the day ever since. Thanks, GorillaMan! I don’t get no love. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/37 "2004-10-26T03:05:30Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > I don’t get no love. ☹ Sorry, **Tabby\_Cat** : when I read “win + D/M for minimising all windows” in your post, it somehow looked much more complicated, and like something different, than win+D (and I didn’t know what win+D did until I tried it). Just the way I read it, I guess. It’s frustrating when people do to me what I just did to you, so, sorry again. And: Love! Love! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/38 "2004-10-26T15:18:22Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I love the Start Key > > (you know about Start+E, Start+D, Start+R etc, aren’t you?) > > Anyway, there’s plenty of freeware utilities to disable it if you want to. Just google a bit. Is there a way to access a list of these commands? Or one available on the web? I’m a little leary of learning them by the ‘push the button and watch your hard disk reformat’ method. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/39 "2004-10-26T16:00:41Z")
Just for the record, with most keyboards you can remove the Windows key to avoid hitting it by accident, and still press it intentionally by reaching down inside there. And for the poster who wanted to know why keyboard shortcuts are useful, you must not do much writing. Every time I take my hands off the keyboard and grab the mouse, it slows me down. Menus are for people learning how to use a program, or people who don’t use it very often. Once you get to really know the keyboard shortcuts in a program, you can work far faster. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807/40 "2004-10-27T04:05:50Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Is there a way to access a list of these commands? Or one available on the web? I’m a little leary of learning them by the ‘push the button and watch your hard disk reformat’ method. :eek: Pussy! 😛 Just kidding (sort of). [Here’s](http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;294317) at least a partial list, along with some other tips, from big bad Microsoft itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-start-key-should-be-in-the-same-level-of-hell-as-the-insert-key/270807.md?page=1)