# The Starving Artist plan to restore America to its former glory! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960 "2010-03-26T23:14:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/161 "2010-03-28T20:24:07Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Drat, and I don’t think you ever did show us your policy proposals for increasing moral virtue (other than banning alcohol, which is politically not a feasible option). > > Can you not come up with, say, five reasonable recommendations that could be feasibly implemented in order to improve the world? If you can’t figure out how you want to make change, you just come off as a whiny whiner who whines. Not his job. Prophets of doom don’t have to be helpful. They only need to tell you to repent, repent, the end is near. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/162 "2010-03-28T20:36:20Z")
> [@Try2B Comprehensive](#): > > Exactly my ass. There has been enough posted in this thread to debunk your bare assertion about the strength of women, and your response is to repeat your bare assertion without confronting a thing that was said to debunk it. > [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > Do you know that they lack the upper body strength to drag a standard training dummy, so the weight was reduced to make the job fit the person? Thats what Rush said, and I believed him. We have less capable firefighters due to womans’ lib. > > Shit, I have to quit hanging around here, you people are affecting my black and white worldview with all these shades of gray. So there’s no difference between the strength and body-carrying capabilites of men and women at all? Is that your drift? This is precisely the kind of shit that drives me nuts about liberalism. Black athletes absolutely dominate every sport they take up but if you acknowledge that you’re a racist. Women clearly, obviously and undeniably lack the size, strength and power of men but if you acknowledge that you’re a sexist. It’s PC bullshit like this which insists that we turn a blind eye to reality and pretend things are other than they really are that cause conservatives to roll their eyes, and then to become angry when it’s used as the basis for name-calling and derision. Look, my family is full of women. Women in my family were working in the fifties and they are working now. I have no fucking problem with women working, and I certainly want to see them pursue whatever fields they are interested in and to become all that they can and want to be. Men are better at some things than women and women are better at some things than men. IMO, it’s a wash. I don’t either sex is inherently better than the other…just different. (:smack: Wow! Who’da thunk _that_, huh???) You people might not want to take a look at [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=557548), it just might make your heads 'asplode. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/163 "2010-03-28T20:39:07Z")
“Is that your drift?” No, my drift was that I checked into something I was told and found it to be not true. I think the men are equal to women crowd are mistaken. Similar, yes, with overlapping areas of both strength and weakness, but not equal. And if you ever call me a liberal I will do what we did in the good old days, wash your mouth out with soap. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/164 "2010-03-28T20:48:31Z")
> [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > And if you ever call me a liberal I will do what we did in the good old days, wash your mouth out with soap. I do not mean this to be disrespectful, just internet tough guy talk. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/165 "2010-03-28T20:49:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t know but I can’t spend another day here arguing about it. I’m out. Meh, he’ll be back. ETA: I guess that happened as I posted this. I thought you were leaving, **Starving Artist**? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/166 "2010-03-28T20:55:16Z")
> [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > No, my drift was that I checked into something I was told and found it to be not true. And what was it you found not to be true? I said that women don’t have the upper body strength to carry people down fire ladders. Someone posted a cite that there are women firefighters. So what? They got their jobs through feminist politics and they still can’t carry people down fireladders. The fact that maybe one woman in a thousand is strong enough to maybe do so (and probably due to today’s bodybuilding techniques and steroids which weren’t even available back when I originally made the comment) hardly disproves the point. > [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > And if you ever call me a liberal I will do what we did in the good old days, wash your mouth out with soap. Well, at least there’s that. 😃 And on preview, I know that **FE**. That’s why the smilie above. 🙂 > [@Guinastasia](#): > > ETA: I guess that happened as I posted this. I thought you were leaving, Starving Artist? I did leave. And I’m getting ready to leave again. When I come back I’ll be back, and then when I leave again I’ll be gone. That’s kind of how it works. What you won’t see though is me spending all day here like I did yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/167 "2010-03-28T21:06:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So there’s no difference between the strength and body-carrying capabilites of men and women at all? Is that your drift? > > This is precisely the kind of shit that drives me nuts about liberalism. Black athletes absolutely dominate every sport they take up but if you acknowledge that you’re a racist. Women clearly, obviously and undeniably lack the size, strength and power of men but if you acknowledge that you’re a sexist. The drift is that women are not so different that they cannot carry a person down a ladder in the capacity of a firefighter. Something tells me that this isn’t going to make an impression, but [here](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate-uk/2010/03/06/chipping-away-at-old-stereotypes-about-women-firefighters/) is an interview with a woman firefighter, talking about the subject of carrying a person down a ladder: > [@](#): > > Could a woman – or a man for that matter – carry someone down a ladder from a burning building? Yes, both men and women can, and I was trained to do this at training school, but in 22 years of firefighting I’ve never seen anyone try it, and I doubt many of my colleagues have either. You might see this sort of manoeuvre in cinemas, but today’s firefighters will enter a building wearing their breathing apparatus, and rescue you as a team which is much safer for the firefighters and the person being rescued. ---
**Author:** ![FE3O4ENAIL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba9def/32.png) [@FE3O4ENAIL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FE3O4ENAIL)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/168 "2010-03-28T21:17:38Z")
Speaking of soap in your mouth, wouldn’t that be child abuse today? Did the liberals move the line so far that common ,effective punishments of the past are now crimes? Is some of the blame for " kids today" because the parents hands are tied? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/169 "2010-03-28T21:28:49Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The drift is that women are not so different that they cannot carry a person down a ladder in the capacity of a firefighter. How on Earth is this so? There is no way that the average woman can carry a grown adult human being down two or three stories of fireladder, and the fact that there may be a rare one somewhere who can makes no substantive difference. Something tells me that this isn’t going to make an impression, but [here](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate-uk/2010/03/06/chipping-away-at-old-stereotypes-about-women-firefighters/) is an interview with a woman firefighter, talking about the subject of carrying a person down a ladder: [/QUOTE] And that’s perfectly fine. But at the time of my original comment, ca. 1972, firefighters were expected to be able to carry people down ladders. And firefighter weight-hauling necessity is futher backed up by **FE’s** cite on the lowering of male firefighter loads from 195 lbs. to 175 lbs. Again, I have no problem with women working or doing anything else that men do. My complaint is with the practice of insisting that no racial or sex differences exist when they so obviously do. And my annoyance on this subject is considerably exacerbated by the fact that people of non-white races and/or women can and do often make such distinctions freely themselves. :rolleyes: > [@FE3O4ENAIL](#): > > Speaking of soap in your mouth, wouldn’t that be child abuse today? > Did the liberals move the line so far that common ,effective punishments of the past are now crimes? > Is some of the blame for " kids today" because the parents hands are tied? Some of it is, absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/170 "2010-03-28T21:44:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what was it you found not to be true? I said that women don’t have the upper body strength to carry people down fire ladders. Someone posted a cite that there are women firefighters. So what? They got their jobs through feminist politics and they still can’t carry people down fireladders. The fact that maybe one woman in a thousand is strong enough to maybe do so (and probably due to today’s bodybuilding techniques and steroids which weren’t even available back when I originally made the comment) hardly disproves the point. Er, how is it that you know that none of those female firefighters aren’t in those one woman in a thousand group? How is it you’re entirely comfortable, in fact, apparently saying that each and every female firefighter owes their position to feminist politics, and that exactly none of them are able to carry people down fireladders? **SA** , if a liberal made such a generalization, you’d be on them quite quickly, and rightly so. This is a terrible leap to make. I think this is a good example of the whole “not taking into account ignorance” that I was talking about upthread. And on what are you basing your knowledge of female anatomical extremes? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/171 "2010-03-28T21:56:48Z")
> [@](#): > > and adopt alternative modes of dress and behavior without paying a price societally in terms of acceptance and employment 'nuff said. I think we all see what you mean now. ---
**Author:** ![random6x7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@random6x7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/random6x7)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/172 "2010-03-28T22:02:06Z")
What about my experience with my job, **Starving Artist**? Fifteen years ago, men would do everything they could to keep women out of the field, saying that we weren’t capable of doing the job because of our weak little girly arms. Now, I’m one of the better, faster crew members I know, and that category is overall pretty equally male and female. I know I don’t take steroids, and my coworkers are more likely to drink or smoke pot than 'roid up, yet here we are, doing the job. And lord knows they haven’t reduced expectations any over the years. Hell, now we have more equipment to hike in. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/173 "2010-03-28T23:06:23Z")
> [@random6x7](#): > > What about my experience with my job, **Starving Artist**? Fifteen years ago, men would do everything they could to keep women out of the field, saying that we weren’t capable of doing the job because of our weak little girly arms. Now, I’m one of the better, faster crew members I know, and that category is overall pretty equally male and female. I know I don’t take steroids, and my coworkers are more likely to drink or smoke pot than 'roid up, yet here we are, doing the job. And lord knows they haven’t reduced expectations any over the years. Hell, now we have more equipment to hike in. Since you’ve disavowed the steroids, apparently you’re one of those one-in-a-thousanders who got their job solely because of whining feminists. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/174 "2010-03-28T23:22:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And what was it you found not to be true? I said that women don’t have the upper body strength to carry people down fire ladders. Someone posted a cite that there are women firefighters. So what? They got their jobs through feminist politics and they still can’t carry people down fireladders. The fact that maybe one woman in a thousand is strong enough to maybe do so (and probably due to today’s bodybuilding techniques and steroids which weren’t even available back when I originally made the comment) hardly disproves the point. Alternatively, they got their jobs in the last two decades by meeting the competitive exams. Since far more fire victims are removed through doors than multi-story windows (and are removed by cherry pickers and snorkels rather than ladders), your complaint, even if it was true, is generally irrelevant. Since it has also been demonstrated that it is safer for victims to be dragged below the smoke than (where a woman’s lower pelvis function provides better leverage) than carried up in the smoke (where the traditional “fireman’s carry” placed them), complaints about women firefighters are rather silly. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My complaint is with the practice of insisting that no racial or sex differences exist when they so obviously do. I’d be interested in seeing a list of the “racial” differences you believe “obviously” exist. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/175 "2010-03-28T23:36:19Z")
[Check out this post from SA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12275569&postcount=12), where he admits actually being proud of not following the news, since all that “fact” stuff just irritates him. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/176 "2010-03-28T23:41:02Z")
Pssst…I want everyone to come in real tight and pay very close attention… **[SIZE=“6”]I DON’T GIVE A FUCK IF WOMEN ARE FIREFIGHTERS!**[/SIZE] Ahem…I also don’t give a fuck if a black guy is president or if gay people get married. Mmkay…that dog don’t hunt with me. But I must say that it’s been nice clomping down memory lane with you shmoes and being reminded of liberal dipshits love to call people sexists/racists/homophobes simply for voicing an obvious truth…or at least one that applies 99.99 percent of the time. So you can keep this shit up all you want but I’m not playing your game. I’ve said the last I’m gonna say on this subject. And I think it’s pretty obvious, **Elvis** , you dishonest piece of shit, that I’ve been following the news pretty closely both before and since I arrived here. The period I spoke of in my post to **olives** lasted only a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/177 "2010-03-28T23:42:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’d be interested in seeing a list of the “racial” differences you believe “obviously” exist. At this point, I don’t think I’d want to know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/178 "2010-03-28T23:49:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I think it’s pretty obvious, **Elvis** , you dishonest piece of shit, that I’ve been following the news pretty closely both before and since I arrived here. :shrug: Your own post, fool. > [@](#): > > The period I spoke of in my post to **olives** lasted only a couple of years. But the deliberate ignorance lingers on. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/179 "2010-03-28T23:58:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So you can keep this shit up all you want but I’m not playing your game. I’ve said the last I’m gonna say on this subject. Now, now; we all know that as a general rule, you’ve never said the last you’re gonna say on any given subject. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960/180 "2010-03-29T00:02:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … My complaint is with the practice of insisting that no racial … differences exist when they so obviously do. … Dude, it was well known in the golden age you yearn for that certain guys just didn’t have the necessary skills to fly airplanes ('specially “fighters”), ya know differences, racial differences, ::cough::The Tuskegee Airmen::cough::. 'Course the navy knew better, they had all the skills necessary … to be stewards and messmen, ya know servants, just like in the golden age of your golden age. Oh, and court-martialing them when they didn’t want to get blowed-up for no particularly good reason ::cough::[The Port Chicago 50](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Chicago_disaster)::cough::. . CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-starving-artist-plan-to-restore-america-to-its-former-glory/533960.md?page=10)