# The State of Hawaii is \*not\* "an island in the Pacific" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 21, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900 "2017-04-21T08:07:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/21 "2017-04-21T15:33:41Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > I can’t wait to see him dismiss any rulings he doesn’t like from the US district court in Manhattan as some island in the Atlantic. I’d dare him to describe an unfavourable ruling from Florida as from “a judge on a flaccid wang of a peninsula…” ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/22 "2017-04-21T15:49:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What about Man? The Isle of Man is an island. No Man is an island. It’s an Isle. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/23 "2017-04-21T15:55:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What about Man? The Isle of Man is an island. It’s actually a peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/24 "2017-04-21T15:56:28Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > So Sessions’ granddaughter was born on the Big Island? Because that’s the only thing that makes Prior’s statement accurate. Do provide your evidence, please. > > I’m not saying you are definitely wrong, but I haven’t been able to find any information that you’re right, either. I have not, either – but although Honolulu is on Oahu, Oahu is not the biggest island in the state of Hawaii – as you acknowledge, Hawaii (the island) is the biggest island of Hawaii (the state). On the other hand, Oahu is the most populous. But Hawaii (the island) is the second-most populous, with three perfectly viable hospitals. So – I didn’t start a thread claiming there was a mistake. You did. You cannot – even in MPSIMS – logically then demand I prove you wrong; that’s the fallacy of _argumentum ad ignoratiam_. It’s for you to prove the truth of your claim. Right now, the OP suggests that someone said something factually in error, but the best evidence you have is that you “hazard a guess” that one of Sessions’ granddaughters was born on Oahu and not the island of Hawaiʻi. I hazard a guess you have not supported your claim. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/25 "2017-04-21T16:09:11Z")
Clearly he is channelling [Dan Quayle](https://youtu.be/IIFggCQv4J4?t=49). Although Quayle _did_ manage to identify Hawaii as a part of the US… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/26 "2017-04-21T16:18:16Z")
The error was not in the denotative meaning of anything he said, but in the connotative implications. What he said was that the judge was on an island in the Pacific, which is correct. But what he implied was that the judge was on a _mere_ island in the Pacific, which is incorrect: Hawaii (in either sense of the term) is not a mere island: It’s an island (or group of islands) which happens to be a state (or major part of a state) of the United States, legally equal to any of the other 49 states of the United States, and home to judges that have just as much legal power in the government of the United States as any other location in our nation. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/27 "2017-04-21T16:18:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have not, either – but although Honolulu is on Oahu, Oahu is not the biggest island in the state of Hawaii – as you acknowledge, Hawaii (the island) is the biggest island of Hawaii (the state). On the other hand, Oahu is the most populous. But Hawaii (the island) is the second-most populous, with three perfectly viable hospitals. > > So – I didn’t start a thread claiming there was a mistake. You did. You cannot – even in MPSIMS – logically then demand I prove you wrong; that’s the fallacy of _argumentum ad ignoratiam_. It’s for you to prove the truth of your claim. Right now, the OP suggests that someone said something factually in error, but the best evidence you have is that you “hazard a guess” that one of Sessions’ granddaughters was born on Oahu and not the island of Hawaiʻi. > > I hazard a guess you have not supported your claim. Ah, heck. I just came in here to say that I’ve just been browsing the latest news updates on this subject, and no one but me seems to be making the distinction between the State of Hawaii and the island of Hawaii, even the justifiably incensed Hawaiian reps. So clearly, my focus is misplaced. No one (but me, stickler for language that I am) cares that the collective islands are being referred to as one island. Having said that, let me me note that you said I was “complaining about the accuracy of a comment that is in fact accurate.” So, you have made a factual claim. Why is it not logical for me to ask for proof of this? I’m not asking you to prove me wrong (I admit that i don’t know the answer). I’m asking YOU to prove YOU right. Anyway, it seems that neither of us knows where the heck she was born. Unless she was born on the Big Island, Prior’s comment was geographically inaccurate. And no one with an ounce of perspective cares much. Can we agree there are three true statements in this paragraph? . ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/28 "2017-04-21T16:27:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A simple misstatement that is quickly corrected, compared to insulting both a state and the judiciary itself? > Next time, try fighting _against_ ignorance. OK, OK - Hawaii isn’t an island, and it isn’t in the Pacific. And if you have a pineapple farm there, you didn’t grow that. And Don Ho isn’t a judge. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/29 "2017-04-21T16:31:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Hawaii became a state in 1959. Sessions was only 12 years old at the time. Sure, he remembers when Hawaii wasn’t a state. But he’s had 58 years to get used to the idea that it’s part of the Union. I’m fairly certain that Sessions hasn’t gotten used to the fact that slavery is no longer legal, and may well dispute the authority of the judiciary and Congress over the Confederate States of America that he represents. I would wager that if you were at a party with him he’d corner you after three drinks and go on an semi-coherent screed about how the American Civil War never ended, and Lincoln wasn’t a legitimate president. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/30 "2017-04-21T16:37:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK, OK - Hawaii isn’t an island, and it isn’t in the Pacific. And if you have a pineapple farm there, you didn’t grow that. > > And Don Ho isn’t a judge. I suppose you think you are making a point with all this nonsense. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/31 "2017-04-21T16:38:47Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m fairly certain that Sessions hasn’t gotten used to the fact that slavery is no longer legal, and may well dispute the authority of the judiciary and Congress over the Confederate States of America that he represents. I would wager that if you were at a party with him he’d corner you after three drinks and go on an semi-coherent screed about how the American Civil War never ended, and Lincoln wasn’t a legitimate president. > > Stranger Don’t forget the part about how the war was really about states’ rights and was the “War of Northern Aggression.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/32 "2017-04-21T16:39:50Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Although Quayle _did_ manage to identify Hawaii as a part of the US… Cite? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/33 "2017-04-21T16:46:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK, OK - Hawaii isn’t an island, and it isn’t in the Pacific. And if you have a pineapple farm there, you didn’t grow that. > > And Don Ho isn’t a judge. > > Regards, > Shodan See post 26. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/34 "2017-04-21T16:48:21Z")
So this anger is all about…island vs. islands? That’s it? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/35 "2017-04-21T16:51:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So this anger is all about…island vs. islands? That’s it? No. The anger is dismissing Hawaii as less than an equal part of the Union. And not understanding the role of the federal courts. And being part of this clusterfuck administration. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/36 "2017-04-21T17:15:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > By complaining about the accuracy of a comment that is in fact accurate. The statement was not accurate. You cannot parse the accuracy of a statement without reading it in context. The context is to remove the statehood and legitimacy of a judge because he lives in Hawaii. Hawaii is not merely an island in the Pacific, but an equal State of the United States, and its judges are equal to every other judge. In fact, what you said after this part I quoted is exactly the same thing being said by everyone else. Those aspects make his claim inaccurate. I do not get your desire to try and start fights over minutia if you do not support this administration. If you do, then I get it. That’s why I suspect **Shodan** does what he does. But you don’t. Session’s statement was no more accurate than people who read the Bible literally get an accurate interpretation. The context matters in evaluating accuracy. If not, you could claim the Bible is wrong because the Creation story is a myth. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/37 "2017-04-21T17:22:30Z")
“I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the President of the United States from what appears to be clearly his statutory and Constitutional power.” Emphasis added. There is nothing factually incorrect about that. I could refer to a Wash. State judge as someone “up in the Northwest”, and that would also be accurate. There is nothing that requires us to refer to the state that a specific judge resides in, and it’s especially less important if he is a federal judge, ruling on a federal issue. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/38 "2017-04-21T17:26:51Z")
The judge could have been standing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/39 "2017-04-21T17:29:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the President of the United States from what appears to be clearly his statutory and Constitutional power.” > > Emphasis added. There is nothing factually incorrect about that. I could refer to a Wash. State judge as someone “up in the Northwest”, and that would also be accurate. There is nothing that requires us to refer to the state that a specific judge resides in, and it’s especially less important if he is a federal judge, ruling on a federal issue. I believe that the whole part over the island bit is just pedantry and nitpicking, focused on that phrase because that phrase is rather dismissive of not just the judge, but of the state upon which he sits. But, removing that particular phrase leaves us with “I really am amazed that a judge can issue an order…” which means that our attorney general is amazed at the checks and balances in the constitution that he is supposed to be defending. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900/40 "2017-04-21T17:29:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I do not get your desire to try and start fights over minutia if you do not support this administration. If you do, then I get it. That’s why I suspect Shodan does what he does. Do you understand the concept of the genetic fallacy? The truth of a statement is independent of who makes it. I didn’t vote for Obama. Do you think therefore that I ought not to care if someone says he is from Kenya? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-hawaii-is-not-an-island-in-the-pacific/784900.md?page=3)