The State of Hawaii is *not* "an island in the Pacific"

[ElvisL1ves]

Context does matter, friend.

[Bryan_Ekers]

Even for this administration, this is a low.

Ha!

[doorhinge]

@CairoCarol

The State of Hawaii is not “an island in the Pacific”

Um, no, I don’t think so. Derrick Watson is from the State of Hawaii, and it’s a pretty safe bet that when Sessions and Prior said “Hawaii” they were referring to the State - which isn’t an island, it’s many islands.

There is indeed an island called Hawaii (we call it the Big Island to avoid confusion), but it is not synonymous with the State

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Sessions said. "I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the President of the United States from…

Just to clarify, are you’re complaining that Sessions did not say what you wanted/allowed/permitted/expected him to say?

Derrick Watson is a judge sitting/standing/peeing in the surrounding water on an island in the Pacific:
A) Yes
B) Yes, but
C) Yes, butt
D) Midway is not only halfway between two places, or halfway thru a process, or halfway thru a period of time, it is also an island in the Pacific.

[Hari_Seldon]

@TriPolar

59. You forgot Alaska and New Mexico were added the same year.

New Mexico is a state? Here I thought it was part of Mexico.

While his statement was geographically accurate, it was clearly intended as a put-down and that is why it was demeaning. But you all knew that. Sessions is a one-man wrecking crew.

[Baker]

Can I tell a funny story I’ve posted before elsewhere in these forums?

A good friend of mine from high school married a career Air Force guy. When he changed stations she of course moved with him.

Their next to last posting was 3-1/2 years in Fairbanks Alaska. My friend really like it. She wasn’t so thrilled about their last posting, San Antonio, Texas. When she went to get a new driver’s license at the Texas DMV she was told about all the driving tests, the paperwork and new insurance she’d have to have. She was puzzled, as getting a new license had never been that complicated.

Friend asked why so much work was needed and the clerk replied “We don’t take licenses from foreign countries.” Yep, the Texas clerk, working in a position of authority, didn’t know Alaska is a US state, and would not budge until my friend got her supervisor. Said supervisor also seemed suspcious but didn’t want a hassle so she got her new DL without all the crap.

[doorhinge]

@Hari_Seldon

New Mexico is a state? Here I thought it was part of Mexico.

While his statement was geographically accurate,

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What was wrong with old Mexico? Or plain Mexico? North Mexico?

Sessions statement was accurate but it looks like the offenderatti were running out of things to bitch about. Everybody needs a hobby.

[running_coach]

@doorhinge

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What was wrong with old Mexico? Or plain Mexico? North Mexico?

Sessions statement was accurate but it looks like the offenderatti were running out of things to bitch about. Everybody needs a hobby.

He did question the legitimacy of a federal judge.

[Falchion]

@Acsenray

There is absolutely no way Sessions can plausibly claim to be “amazed” in any way by this. He has been in law and politics for decades and this is exactly how it works. So either Sessions is lying in order to rule up a certain sector of the Republican base or he has recently been replaced by a doppelgänger from outer space.

I don’t think “amazed” needs to mean surprised in the sense of unforeseen or inconceivable. (Although, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say “this is exactly how it works.” Nationwide injunctions are quite rare and controversial, except in class actions. Independent, and sometimes contrary, rulings of federal judges each applying within a particular district or circuit is how the system generally works).

But, more to the point, people have said to me that they are “amazed” that we have an electoral system where a person can become president despite not “winning” the popular vote. These people know that the system was designed that way. And that it’s happened in the past. I don’t think they’re lying when they say they’re “amazed”. I think they’re expressing disapproval at a state of affairs they think is inappropriate. I take this the same way.

@k9bfriender

First, the comment was not insulting and degrading to both a state and an entire branch of the government, but was instead a prediction by a highly qualified legal scholar who also happened to be president at the time. This was an argument from knowledge and experience, as opposed to session’s argument coming from incredulity and ad hominem.

In Obama’s case, you had the president making a prediction on how the courts would rule, in Session’s case, you had an AG indicating that the courts had no authority.

Second, how did that end up playing out? Was he right?

I can see how Sessions’ comment was insulting to a state. I don’t see how it was insulting to the judiciary. And I certainly don’t see how it as ad hominem. And I certainly don’t see how Sessions’ comments suggested that the court has no authority while Obama’s statement was a mere prediction.

(Relatedly, I find it odd that we now refer to Obama as a “legal scholar” or a “constitutional scholar.” Has he ever authored a work of scholarship? I know he taught law at Chicago. And his legal credentials are certainly impressive. But a scholar?)

Was he right? Fair question. Is overturning a law enacted by a “strong majority” of Congress “unprecedented”? No, that’s an objectively false statement that, if taken literally, suggests a staggering ignorance of legal history (but we don’t take it literally and shouldn’t). Did the court uphold the statute? In part. Tell me, if the courts ultimately uphold the immigration order, does that make Sessions’ comment more palatable to you?

[sleestak]

@Czarcasm

I suppose you think you are making a point with all this nonsense. Whatever.

The point is that it *is *nonsense, so it fits the thread perfectly.

Slee

[CairoCarol]

@doorhinge

(post shortened, underline added)

Sessions said. "I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the President of the United States from…

Just to clarify, are you’re complaining that Sessions did not say what you wanted/allowed/permitted/expected him to say?

Derrick Watson is a judge sitting/standing/peeing in the surrounding water on an island in the Pacific:
A) Yes
B) Yes, but
C) Yes, butt
D) Midway is not only halfway between two places, or halfway thru a process, or halfway thru a period of time, it is also an island in the Pacific.

Okay, once more with feeling, and a new word arrangement, because this is after all MPSISM, so why not harp on the mundane?

Derrick Watson is from the State of Hawaii, which is a chain of multiple islands, not “an island.” The island he was on is called Oahu, not Hawaii. So Sessions’ comment is semantically/geographically fine if he was referring to Oahu. (I’ll leave the larger issue of Sessions’ unwarranted scorn/amazement to others in this thread who are doing a fine job of explaining it.)

Prior then went on to refer to “Hawaii” as if “Hawaii” were (A) an island; AND (b) the same island Judge Watson was on. But it’s impossible for A and B to both be true at the same time, because Hawaii Island and Oahu Island are two different things.

Anyone reading the statements of either man, who had no other knowledge of Hawaii, would assume that the State of Hawaii consists on “an island.” This is not true, and it sounds funny, just as it would sound weird if someone said, “She’s from the State of Los Angeles” or “He lives in an island.”

[JRDelirious]

@Aspenglow

Why question the legitimacy of the judge’s ruling on the basis of geography at all? That’s the problem with Sessions’ statement. He makes it sound as if the judge’s ruling was somehow less than binding and/or legitimate because of where the judge sits when he issued it. Surely you must see that?

@silenus

Daily Kos responded:

That’s how the justice system works, and you know it, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III. You weren’t objecting too loudly when one judge sitting in Texas blocked then-President Obama’s order expanding overtime eligibility. Or when one judge sitting in Texas blocked Obama’s order requiring companies that wanted big federal contracts to disclose labor law violations. Or when one judge sitting in Texas blocked Obama’s rule allowing transgender students to use the bathroom in school. Shall. I. Go. On?

Indeed. Or one could use a whole lot of other hypothetical substitutions - how can some judge in a big Eastern city make a ruling that affects hunters’ guns; how can some judge in the middle of the empty High Plains make a ruling that affects inncer city students; etc. If the block was made by the Federal Court for the District of Columbia, would it be any less troublesome?

[CairoCarol]

I thought I was ready to let go, but had to share this gem I just read: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/21/opinion/lets-all-learn-about-hawaii.html

Let’s All Learn About Hawaii
Say “Aloha!” to Hawaii, the 50th state in the United States. Hawaii is a chain of dozens of islands, in the Pacific Ocean. Many of them small and uninhabited, but there are eight main islands. They are Hawaii, Maui, Oahu, Kauai, Molokai, Lanai, Niihau and Kahoolawe.

Hawaii is famous for warm sunshine, beautiful mountains and beaches, and friendly people. Hawaii’s largest city is its capital, Honolulu, which has a population of about 350,000, within a county of about 993,000. By comparison, Birmingham, the largest city in Alabama, has 212,000 people. If you ask, “Where would you like to go on your honeymoon, Honolulu or Birmingham?” many people will not understand why that is a question.

Hah.

[doorhinge]

@running_coach

He did question the legitimacy of a federal judge.

Gosh, nobody ever does that. :rolleyes: This must have been the first time that has ever happened. :smack:

[doorhinge]

@CairoCarol

Okay, once more with feeling, and a new word arrangement, because this is after all MPSISM, so why not harp on the mundane?

Derrick Watson is from the State of Hawaii, which is a chain of multiple islands, not “an island.” The island he was on is called Oahu, not Hawaii. So Sessions’ comment is semantically/geographically fine if he was referring to Oahu.

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So the judge was actually sitting on an island in the Pacific. How droll.

[ElvisL1ves]

@doorhinge

Gosh, nobody ever does that. :rolleyes: This must have been the first time that has ever happened. :smack:

You’re referring to the Attorney General of the United States.

[CairoCarol]

@doorhinge

(post shortened)

So the judge was actually sitting on an island in the Pacific. How droll.

Jeff Sessions is guilty of insulting a state and a federal judge, not of making a literal misstatement of fact. Prior is the one whose commentary added factual error to the mix.

[Acsenray]

Nm

[doorhinge]

@CairoCarol

Jeff Sessions is guilty of insulting a state and a federal judge, not of making a literal misstatement of fact. Prior is the one whose commentary added factual error to the mix.

So the judge was not actually sitting on an island in the Pacific?

[JRDelirious]

@doorhinge

So the judge was not actually sitting on an island in the Pacific?

Well, technically he was sitting on a chair in a building on an island. You know we are detail oriented like that.

[CairoCarol]

nm