# The state of Jews in Europe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560 "2012-04-22T04:50:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/21 "2012-04-22T23:10:17Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Although this is far, far milder than the murders and other crimes catalogued by Mr. Steyn, it should be noted that French politicians condemn kosher (and halal) meat and try to scare voters with stuff like “Most of the meat you eat is kosher or halal.” The issue is the meat being halal despite not being labelled as such. It matters a lot for the presidential election apparently, for some reason. Kosher meat hasn’t been mentioned in the debate AFAIK, even though Jews sided with Muslims on this issue, both fearing, I guess, (I didn’t really follow that closely) regulations that could limit production of Kosher/Halal meat. I’m fairly certain that this supposed issue is strongly rooted in anti-Arab racism. Nothing to do with antisemitism, though,IMO. Just collateral damage (similarly, nobody had cared about pupils wearing kippas until they wanted a ban on muslim veils in schools and the obvious similarity made necessary to ban both). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/22 "2012-04-22T23:26:17Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > [Here’s a report](http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/04/12/france-hate-crimes-on-the-decline-xenophobia-on-the-rise/) on French hate crime. Hate crimes appear to be on the rise but note that whether its rising or shrinking, the actual numbers of such crimes given are pretty low. > ). Ludicrously low, actually. I suspect that more racist insults are made in a single day in Paris subway system than are counted for an entire year in the whole country according to the report. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/23 "2012-04-22T23:40:55Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Of course, if the Palestinians ever decided to stop killing themselves publicly over their families’ stolen land and stage a military takeover of the land with actual tactics and strategy, they presumably could drive the Jews out, Bullshit. The Israeli military is well trained and well equipped. There’s no way the Palestinians could take them. And in the unlikely event Israel was in real danger of falling, the U.S. would simply not allow it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/24 "2012-04-23T00:36:20Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Bullshit. The Israeli military is well trained and well equipped. There’s no way the Palestinians could take them. And in the unlikely event Israel was in real danger of falling, the U.S. would simply not allow it to happen. The US “allowed” it to happen in both the Six Day War and the Ramadan War as well as during Israel’s War of Independence. For that matter, during the Sinai-Suez War, Eisenhower spanned Israel and sent them scurrying out of the Sinai as quickly as they could. I know lots of people ignorantly believe the US does whatever Israel wants, but if it’s a master-bitch relationship we’re the master and they’re the bitch. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/25 "2012-04-23T02:32:47Z")
> [@DearestDane](#): > > Mark Steyn is a right wing, manipulating, hate-speaker. This does not exclude the possibility that he may actually be right on some points, though. Walter Russell Mead is a Democrat and a leading foreign policy scholar; he’s written on it a number of times as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/26 "2012-04-23T04:07:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As opposed to, what? Voting for the right wingers who’d like to see them imprisoned or killed? You think that most right wingers would like to see Jews “imprisoned or killed”? That’s an absolutely moronic statement. Please explain. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/27 "2012-04-23T04:11:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The US “allowed” it to happen in both the Six Day War and the Ramadan War as well as during Israel’s War of Independence. Uh…no. Israel still exists. Therefore, the U.S. has not allowed them to fall, ie, be conquered. The U.S. will not allow that to happen. For that matter, if Israel feels its continued existence as a nation is at stake, they will use nukes. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/28 "2012-04-23T04:31:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Uh…no. Israel still exists. Therefore, the U.S. has not allowed them to fall, ie, be conquered. The U.S. will not allow that to happen. For that matter, if Israel feels its continued existence as a nation is at stake, they will use nukes. If anything, the US has stopped Israel from taking over massive areas of land in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. We keep our hands off until the Israelis start winning, and then we step in and demand peace. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/29 "2012-04-23T06:37:24Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Walter Russell Mead is a Democrat and a leading foreign policy scholar; he’s written on it a number of times as well. Looking at his blog, he’s…not really a representative Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/30 "2012-04-23T07:59:14Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Uh…no. Israel still exists. Therefore, the U.S. has not allowed them to fall, ie, be conquered. The U.S. will not allow that to happen. For that matter, if Israel feels its continued existence as a nation is at stake, they will use nukes. Couldn’t you say that about any country that exists? Couldn’t you say that the U.S. itself exists because Canada has not allowed it to fall? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/31 "2012-04-23T10:29:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Couldn’t you say that about any country that exists? Couldn’t you say that the U.S. itself exists because Canada has not allowed it to fall? Not if you had any inkling of the point I was trying to make. **Ibn Warraq** , for reasons entirely unclear to me, either misunderstood my comment, or erroneously claimed the U.S. allowed Israel to be destroyed “in both the Six Day War and the Ramadan War as well as during Israel’s War of Independence.” The fact is that Israel was not destroyed in those conflicts. Therefore, the U.S. did not, as he claimed, allow it to happen. If necessary, the U.S. would intervene militarily to prevent it from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/32 "2012-04-23T10:48:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Not if you had any inkling of the point I was trying to make. > > **Ibn Warraq** , for reasons entirely unclear to me, either misunderstood my comment, or erroneously claimed the U.S. allowed Israel to be destroyed “in both the Six Day War and the Ramadan War as well as during Israel’s War of Independence.” I didn’t get any inkling he was claiming the U.S. allowed Israel to be destroyed - rather that the U.S. didn’t take any specific preventative action to protect Israel, which it turns out Israel didn’t need anyway. I suspect this is at heart just a confusion over verb tenses. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/33 "2012-04-23T12:25:09Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Looking at his blog, he’s…not really a representative Democrat. Obama supporters not good enough, you only accept news from certified progressives? Is the [Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/feb/21/eu.politics?INTCMP=SRCH) enough to the ([Jewish people in the French capital live in the shadow of hatred | Race | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/06/john-galliano-antisemitism-marais)) for you? Or is nothing real unless Rachel Maddow says it is? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/34 "2012-04-23T15:58:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > One reason that Israeli real estate prices have been so high lately is that so many French Jews have been buying second homes in coastal cities. Now, while they claim they’re just doing it for \*vacance \*- and indeed, Israeli beaches are flooded with Francophones during summer months - many of them admit that it’s good having someplace to move to if things get worse back home. You know, just in case. Here’s a recent [article](http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,822928,00.html) in Spiegel that discusses that trend. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/35 "2012-04-24T12:53:09Z")
Apropos. Obama sends special envoy Hannah Rosenthal to Malmø, Sweden to look into the widespread problems with antisemitism ([USA’s envoy comes to the city of hate (Swedish)](http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/dokument/usas-sandebud-nar-hatets-malmo-i-dag/)). Pretty funny, when Sweden that is sending envoys to all kinds of other nations to check up on the human rights. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560/36 "2012-04-28T21:04:13Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Here’s a recent [article](http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,822928,00.html) in Spiegel that discusses that trend. I would note two things, though : -France has the third largest Jewish population (Behind Israel and the US) -A non insignificant number of French Jews who move to Israel come back later (mostly for rather mundane reasons like employment or homesickness) Regarding US support : Israel sure can count on the USA to cast the “right” vote at the UN every single time, but if I were an Israeli, and if the circumstances were such that its very existence was threatened, I definitely wouldn’t take as granted that the USA would come to the rescue with warm bodies. Words are cheap. Things (and popular opinion) change. And finally circumstances would have to be vastly and unpredictably different for this situation to happen. And who knows what would be the international situation, the predicament the USA finds itself in at the time, etc…? Generally speaking countries are always better off not counting on outside help. But this has to be even much more obvious for a Jew, given history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-jews-in-europe/619560.md?page=1)