# “The State of the Navy” (US, The View From “60 Minutes”) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471 "2023-07-02T23:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471/1 "2023-07-02T23:56:42Z")
I was watching a _60 Minutes_ report on the US Navy tonight. Very interesting, but being a “bear of little brain” it made me think of several questions. 1. A case was made for increasing naval funding based on the decreasing number of active US ships (new ones not sufficiently replacing older ones) and the Chinese “trajectory” of increasing numbers, technology and ambition. To what extent do ship numbers matter more than quality? If the future is unmanned ships, does this change the answer? 2. “A generation of shipbuilding” was lost due to spending $55 billion on LCS and (?) Zuma designs which did not work well. Can this story be quickly summarized? Were lessons learned when talking about the new Orca? 3. Has the US Navy done a good job attracting quality candidates? I read the book “It’s Your Ship” which painted a (probably merited) rosy view of issues and it’s author. Does it do a good job? 4. Was the show accurate? Fair? Did it miss major issues? 5. Will technology make navies more or less important than they are now? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471/2 "2023-07-03T00:29:22Z")
Here is a link to the episode, which I don’t really expect people to use. > **[The state of the U.S. Navy | Sunday on 60 Minutes](https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-state-of-the-u-s-navy-sunday-on-60-minutes/)** > > If the U.S. and Chinese militaries can't communicate over a Chinese spy balloon, then what's going to happen when there's a real crisis? Sunday, 60 Minutes' Norah O'Donnell talks with the commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471/3 "2023-07-03T00:39:17Z")
1. The gap from the Chinese is pretty large. They are building fast and numbers but the quality isn’t there. 2. LCS & Zumwalt (not Zuma) were not successful. The LCS program was especially poor. The Zumwalt had potential but when an advance Destroyer/pocket Cruiser that had a research & design budget for over 20 vessels is cut to I believe 3, the expense per ship starts looking really bad. 1. No idea, I’m too far removed from it, but I thought the Navy was doing OK in recruiting goals. 2. No comment 3. Navies will morph but the US Navy is still about power projection. We’ll see carriers start incorporating several types of drones to go with ever more advanced jets. We’ll see defensive laser weapons that will probably be able to stop the boogeyman of Chinese Supersonic missiles. And they’ll remain fairly vulnerable to ever advancing torpedoes. Though ever there drone subs might prove the defensive answer. You’ll also see more drones flying off of small ships. Not to mention the F-35s flying off the small flattops. * * * * * * Right now, today, if just our closest allies support us and the rest of NATO stayed neutral, the US Navy could lead a force that could defeat the rest of the world’s Navy. This is a huge gap that China is trying to close. I’m going to “at” a few of Navy guys/Navy buffs. @Elendil_s_Heir @iiandyiiii @ASL_v2.0 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471/4 "2023-07-03T18:52:31Z")
Thanks, **WE**. I agree with you. I read _It’s Your Ship_, too, and liked it (it’s essentially a management guide using Navy leadership principles), but it’s a little over 20 years old now, so it may be a bit outdated: [https://www.amazon.com/Its-Your-Ship-Management-Anniversary/dp/145552302X](https://www.amazon.com/Its-Your-Ship-Management-Anniversary/dp/145552302X) These previous threads may be of interest, too: > [@How powerful is the Chinese Military?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-powerful-is-the-chinese-military/848203): > > I was just wondering about their actual capabilities rather than how capable they seem through their propaganda. What are their weaknesses, and will they ever achieve parity with the United States? Also, what are their strengths? > [@American Naval Power?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-naval-power/961404): > > I am not remotely a military expert. However, I read with interest an article in the recent Foreign Affairs which argues a dangerous decline in American naval power. The article is written by a director of the American Enterprise Institute. In summary, it argues: The US had a “near-religious” belief China would become more democratic and politically liberal as it grew more prosperous This has largely not happened and so any struggle between Beijing and Washington will increasingly becom… > [@When was the U.S. Navy at its most powerful?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-u-s-navy-at-its-most-powerful/614164): > > “Most powerful” defined as you see fit - for me, it’d be some combination of firepower and capacity for force projection around the globe. The Navy at the end of the Civil War was large, but it was almost entirely (understandably enough) built for riverine and coastal warfare. The USN had lots of ships at the end of WWII, but they were very unsophisticated compared to what we have today. The Reagan-era 600-ship Navy was bigger than it is today, but weapons technology has made some strides in … ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471/5 "2023-07-03T18:56:30Z")
That middle thread seems especially sagacious. But these interesting threads don’t really address my questions about the show, although I thank you for bringing them to my attention. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-of-the-navy-us-the-view-from-60-minutes/986471/6 "2023-07-07T22:34:41Z")
Whatever you do, don’t pay any attention to a straight ship count. This was a huge mistake in the 1980s when a [600 ship Navy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/600-ship_Navy) was dictated as the goal. The Navy’s own think tank pointed out what a bad idea it was and so the school that maintained the think tank was canned and a group of friends of the Secy. of the Navy got the contract. There just wasn’t the manpower, the funds for maintenance let alone the reason. Even before the fall of the USSR it was going away. The issue the Navy currently has is the quality and reliability of it’s new ships is terrible. More of those is not a good idea.