# The State Solution: 1 State v. 2 State **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795 "2014-08-28T20:54:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/21 "2014-08-29T18:24:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well yeah. Two state in name only basically. Isreal + 2 slivers. Well, to be fair, they aren’t taking any of Gaza. In fact, they voluntarily gave back what they had taken previously. Some of the takings on the WB make a certain amount of sense - assuming that they are going to keep Jerusalem, it makes sense that they would in effect take the rest of the city. Others, though, are just straight greed. In any event, I think they are heading for a three-state solution: Israel, WB, and Gaza. It makes little sense to insist on Gaza and the WB being a unitary state at this point, as they are governed by entities with wholly different aims. Every once in a while they aim for a unitary government, but neither Hamas nor the PA trusts the other an inch. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/22 "2014-08-29T18:34:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, at this point you may as well consider _three_-stating it. Isn’t that what we are really talking about here? After all, there already was a 2-state solution – British Palestine was divided into 2 states, Israel & Trans-Jordan. What people are talking about now is a 3rd state from that same area. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/23 "2014-08-29T18:57:50Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Calling the “one state solution” a solution is like calling a party for your hundredth birthday a cure for cancer. _If_ the Palestinian territories can ever be integrated into Israel, it can only happen after the Palestinians reject the tactics of kidnapping and murder that make keeping Hamas at arm’s length a necessity… Even if they did, most Israelis are simply not going to accept a solution that places Israel’s demographics in a position where there is a foreseeable future wherein Jews are not a majority in Israel. That’s totally impossible, no matter how peaceful Palestinians decide to be. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/24 "2014-08-29T18:58:32Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Isn’t that what we are really talking about here? > After all, there already was a 2-state solution – British Palestine was divided into 2 states, Israel & Trans-Jordan. What people are talking about now is a 3rd state from that same area. Well, that’s only because Jordan doesn’t want the WB back. Too many Palestinians in it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/25 "2014-08-29T20:24:04Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Isn’t that what we are really talking about here? > After all, there already was a 2-state solution – British Palestine was divided into 2 states, Israel & Trans-Jordan. What people are talking about now is a 3rd state from that same area. Maybe technically, but I was picturing Israel supporting the relatively reasonable Fatah toward setting up the West Bank as an independent state, play them off against Hamas and such. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/26 "2014-08-29T20:52:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Maybe technically, but I was picturing Israel supporting the relatively reasonable Fatah toward setting up the West Bank as an independent state, play them off against Hamas and such. And perhaps lending them military support to conquer Gaza? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/27 "2014-08-29T21:31:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That seems like a moot distinction. Especially if the Palestinian people voted for Hamas. > > It’s like arguing that America didn’t invade Iraq because it was the American military that invaded Iraq. I don’t believe its moot. One can vote for the lesser evil and not be evil himself. For how many of us do the political parties we vote for represent us completely? Or do some of you just vote for one party because its not the other? Do you agree with everything that your party does, even by the most extreme members? Not everyone who votes for war is willing to fight in it himself, and if push comes to shove, I believe the Palestinians voted Hamas in to send a message about the corruption in Fatah. If Hamas could fix a hospital or give food to people shelled out of their homes and Fatah can’t, I’d vote for them too, even if they turn around and shoot rockets into Israel. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/28 "2014-08-29T22:13:32Z")
Why doesn’t anyone see the clear option here (the only route routinely taken)? Inaction. Hold _status quo_ until one side folds/compromises. I simply don’t see any outside imposed/mediated resolution. So, as outsiders, it’s our job to keep everyone calm/fed/educated/safe. All countries should just focus on playing a stable, peaceful, and constructive role until a generation shows up that can deal with some of the troubles. Harm reduction and hope. I know the Palestinian conflict has acquired an iconic status, but outsiders can’t “fix” everything (we can only influence things for the better). My guess is that Israel will eventually pull settlers from the West Bank like it did with Gaza (all due to demographics, but not anytime soon and not from Jerusalem). The rest I just can’t predict. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/29 "2014-08-29T22:32:44Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Why doesn’t anyone see the clear option here (the only route routinely taken)? Inaction. Hold _status quo_ until one side folds/compromises. . . . “And you should, if you please, refuse Till the conversion of the Jews.” Marvell This does seem to be the most likely eventuality. Will our descendants have this same discussion, a century down the road? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/30 "2014-09-06T00:13:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The two state solution is the one that people think Israel is more likely to accept but the one state solution is still the preferred solution for some groups (IIRC some Hamas folks have said they would cease all hostilities for a one state solution because they think it will eventually lead to an Islamic state, Hamas is really no better than the Zionists, some people even argue that they are worse;)). Why do you keep saying “Zionists” when you never refer to “Palestinian nationalists”? Just say “Jews” or “Israelis”. It makes a lot more sense to contrast “the Palestinians” to “the Israelis” or “the Jews” since “Palestinians”, “Israelis” and “Jews” are ethnic terms. Also while it’s clearly unintentional, when you make such statements you’re imitating the bigots who like to hide behind the “I’m not an anti-Semite, I’m an anti-Zionist”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/31 "2014-09-06T01:27:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Why do you keep saying “Zionists” when you never refer to “Palestinian nationalists”? > > Just say “Jews” or “Israelis”. > > It makes a lot more sense to contrast “the Palestinians” to “the Israelis” or “the Jews” since “Palestinians”, “Israelis” and “Jews” are ethnic terms. > > Also while it’s clearly unintentional, when you make such statements you’re imitating the bigots who like to hide behind the “I’m not an anti-Semite, I’m an anti-Zionist”. I think the other connotation is that Zionism was a movement to go to Israel. By calling the Israelis Zionists, people are pushing the idea that they came from some place else (and should go back there). The flip side of this is speaking about the Right of Return issue. When people use this term, they’re pushing the idea that the Palestinians are seeking to go back to the place they came from. Both terms are archaic. Israel has existed as a state since 1947 and the first wave of Palestinian refugees left in 1948. It’s now 2014. Israel is full of people who were born in Israel and have lived there all their life and most Palestinians were born and grew up outside that country. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/32 "2014-09-06T18:26:40Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It makes a lot more sense to contrast “the Palestinians” to “the Israelis” or “the Jews” since “Palestinians”, “Israelis” and “Jews” are ethnic terms. “Israeli” is not, I hope; there are Arab Muslim Israeli citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/33 "2014-09-06T19:39:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Israeli” is not, I hope; there are Arab Muslim Israeli citizens. And Arab Christians and Druzes who are Israelis. Israeli is a Nationality like American, Canadian, or Australian. Everyone would look askance if we referred to this as a conflict between “the Israelis” and “the Palestinian Nationalists” and they should certainly look askance if I were to refer to this as “the Palestinians” versus “the Zionists”. Now if Damuri wishes to refer to this as “the Palestinian Nationalists” vs. “the Zionists” that makes sense but otherwise he seems to be deciding to use different standards when referring to the Israelis or the Jews than when he’s referring to the Palestinians or Arabs. Personally I have vastly more respect for people who classify it as a conflict between “the Jews” and “the Palestinians” if for no other reason than that is how it’s viewed by both sides of the conflict and trying to classify it as “the Zionists” versus “the Palestinians” is moronic, displays ignorance of the history of the conflict, is extremely insulting to both sides and seems to be trying to tar one side. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/34 "2014-09-06T19:49:34Z")
One State - Israel One Territory - United States Territory of Palestine It’s getting expenses moving these damn M1A2 battle tanks across the Atlantic every ten years. Makes sense just to build a giant and permanent US military base in the West Bank. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/35 "2014-09-06T22:13:27Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > One State - Israel > One Territory - United States Territory of Palestine > > It’s getting expenses moving these damn M1A2 battle tanks across the Atlantic every ten years. Makes sense just to build a giant and permanent US military base in the West Bank. Er… Have you ever been there?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/36 "2014-09-06T22:36:51Z")
Ibn, you just gotta stop with the “ummmm” and “errrrr” lead ins. It’s so damn obnoxious even if you have an utterly perfect point. Try to control your disdain. And in this particular case you don’t have a point, merely the insinuation of superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/37 "2014-09-06T23:01:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Ibn, you just gotta stop with the “ummmm” and “errrrr” lead ins. It’s so damn obnoxious even if you have an utterly perfect point. Try to control your disdain. And in this particular case you don’t have a point, merely the insinuation of superiority. It was meant as a joke post, or at least I assumed it was meant as such and I was merely responding in kind. I was distracted and forgot to add “why would we want it, we can get hummus without doing so.” If BTW I’m wrong and it was meant to be serious I apologize to Watchwolf and you want a serious response I’ll be happy to give you one. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/38 "2014-09-07T01:33:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… Have you ever been there?:dubious: Pffft … have you ever been to the Mojave Desert … that’s where Edwards AFB is. Just how bad can it be? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/39 "2014-09-07T02:09:05Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Pffft … have you ever been to the Mojave Desert … that’s where Edwards AFB is. Just how bad can it be? Heh. I’ve been to Arizona. Is that part of he Mojave desert? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795/40 "2014-09-07T03:33:29Z")
I guess i was a little touchy there. I do enjoy your insight on many subjects but that “err…” thing, which you’ve often done in non joke form, has become a peeve of mine. Sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-state-solution-1-state-v-2-state/696795.md?page=3)