# The steady drip-drip of American fatalities in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585 "2003-06-22T15:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/21 "2003-06-23T05:37:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > A number of them _were_ conservatives. Pat Buchanan comes to mind right away. I’d still wager on _most_. > [@](#): > > The only way I could picture that happening is if the candidate had a lengthy and impeccable military service record. Then he could come off as the professional vs amatuers and claim greater authority and consequently better judgement. I think Kerry is trying just that tack. We’ll see if it works. > [@](#): > > Well, we all have to do things we don’t want to.:dubious: Now that the eggs are broken, might as well make that omlette. Well what was he cracking eggs for if’n he didn’t want to do the cookin’? > [@](#): > > The Iraqi liberation forces, (theirs, not ours), would have to hold out for nearly a year. If there is still guerilla warfare going on this time in 2004 I think Americans will be pretty sick of it and ready to throw some weighty blame around rightly or wrongly. If the Dems choose to seperate themselves on this issue, maybe. WMD or lack thereof may be crucial in this. Dems can just say, “We were lied to!” If Lieberman wins the nomination, I have a hard time seeing him take this tactic though. I still think it’s the economy that will break Bush’s back if it does get broken. What will the republican strategy be? Why starting another war, of course. A few deaths in Afghanistan are nothing compared to the glory of “liberating” Iraq. Likewise, the death toll/unending instabilty in Iraq can be subverted by focusing people’s fear and discontent on the evil of the month, whilst squashing debate and dissent in the name of patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/22 "2003-06-23T06:44:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* > What will the republican strategy be? Why starting another war, of course. A few deaths in Afghanistan are nothing compared to the glory of “liberating” Iraq. Likewise, the death toll/unending instabilty in Iraq can be subverted by focusing people’s fear and discontent on the evil of the month, whilst squashing debate and dissent in the name of patriotism. \*\* Start another war with what? Most of the army combat forces are deployed overseas already. There isnt the capability for another war until the situation in Iraq is resolved and another war will bring even fewer allies then this last one did. ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/23 "2003-06-23T07:26:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eolbo \* > Start another war with what? Most of the army combat forces are deployed overseas already. There isnt the capability for another war until the situation in Iraq is resolved and another war will bring even fewer allies then this last one did. I hope your analysis is correct, but I’m not convinced yet. IIRC the Bush administration contended that they were capable of fighting mulitiple wars simultaneously when Iraq and N Korea both appeared to be looming crises. Also an actual war may not be necessary if the talk is blustery enough. Some felt the congressional resolution authorizing force preceding the last elections favored the Republicans and helped distract from the dismal economy. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/24 "2003-06-23T09:37:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* Also an actual war may not be necessary if the talk is blustery enough. Some felt the congressional resolution authorizing force preceding the last elections favored the Republicans and helped distract from the dismal economy. \*\* I agree with that and I sadly expect to hear much blustery sabre-rattling and playing of the national security card. I’d be surprised to see another shooting war before the election though. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/25 "2003-06-23T11:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* > I’d still wager on _most_. > \*\* Pat’s not a Repub either, just a conservative. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* > Well what was he cracking eggs for if’n he didn’t want to do the cookin’? > \*\* Maybe I should’ve made the dubious face bigger. :dubious: To follow the analogy to the absurd: **He _had_ to crack’em- they were bad eggs** :smack: 😃 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* > If Lieberman wins the nomination, I have a hard time seeing him take this tactic though. > \*\* Republicrats? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* > I still think it’s the economy that will break Bush’s back if it does get broken. > \*\* “It’s the Economy, Stupid?” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by errata \* > \*\* > Likewise, the death toll/unending instabilty in Iraq can be subverted by focusing people’s fear and discontent on the evil of the month, whilst squashing debate and dissent in the name of patriotism. > \*\* War is peace? ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/26 "2003-06-23T18:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > Maybe I should’ve made the dubious face bigger. :dubious: > > To follow the analogy to the absurd: > **He _had_ to crack’em- they were bad eggs** :smack: 😃 My bad. Guess I got whooshed. > [@](#): > > Republicrats? neocons. > [@](#): > > “It’s the Economy, Stupid?” You got it. > [@](#): > > War is peace? My, my, you’re on a roll. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/27 "2003-06-23T18:55:16Z")
The oil duct sabotaged two days ago is still on fire. Another one was sabotaged today. In the past days and weeks members of the dissolved Iraqi military had been staging anti-American demonstrations demanding payment of their salaries but the US had refused. Some demonstrators had been killed by US forces. After threats were issued to attack American forces, the US has given in and said they will pay the salaries of about 250,000 ex-members of the Iraqi military. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/28 "2003-06-23T23:38:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > \*\*And that’s all anyone can ask for. > > Thanks, **Lissa**. \*\* Your welcome. What a kind comment. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/29 "2003-06-23T23:47:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MemoryLeak \* > \*\*FWIW > > Since May 1st, the 50 coalition deaths (3 or 4 were British) break down as follows: > > 16 - enemy action > 32 - accidents (mostly vehicle) > 2 - under investigation \*\* Yeah, I saw something like this when I was checking out the resources. But, what the heck is going on with those vehicle accidents? I would sure like to know the nature of those accidents (Call me cynical, but I wonder if they count hitting a mine a vehicle accident). I mean, 32 deaths in vehicle accidents… Are they giving the troops beer to drink on duty? That is an incredible rate of deadly accidents, especially since many of our troops are driving Humvees, tanks and APC’s. How fast do you have to be going, and what do you have to hit, to kill someone in an armored vehicle. ( I really do not know) The exploration of this matter may expose two things: 1. those are not really accidents- or- 2. there are some very poor controls over driving habits and safety measures in the region. Nonetheless, I still must assert that those men and women would not be dead if we were not in Iraq AND any type of death during this action is still a casualty of the war. If two helicopters crash together while in the region, we have to attribute that to the mission they are on. Thanks for the info memory leak. BTW- do you have a source on that info so I can track these developments as well? ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/30 "2003-06-24T07:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Lissa_ > I mean, 32 deaths in vehicle accidents… Are they giving the troops beer to drink on duty? That is an incredible rate of deadly accidents, especially since many of our troops are driving Humvees, tanks and APC’s. How fast do you have to be going, and what do you have to hit, to kill someone in an armored vehicle. ( I really do not know) Blackout conditions, driver fatigue, terrain, driver error,… Most people have no idea how dangerous it is to operate this equipment. This isn’t quite the same as taking the old Jeep Wrangler outside the town limits and tearing up some farmer’s fields. It’s been many years for me, but I never participated in a large scale military exercise that didn’t have vehicle accidents (not this many of course, but on a per miles basis it may be comparable - these people have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles in these vehicles). Included in the 32 accidents are a few accidental weapons discharges (there were also several during the war). You see these on weapons ranges all the time. The difference is on a range, everybody’s lined up and there’s a bunch of safety NCOs. I’d also heard via network news (but never independently checked) that there were more fatalities due to accidents than enemy action during the war (I do know that during the first week this was true). > [@](#): > > 1. those are not really accidents- or- I know that at least 3 of the fatalities resulting from vehicle accidents were just that (I have a relative that was in that convoy and knew the 3 soldiers killed in the accident). > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, I still must assert that those men and women would not be dead if we were not in Iraq AND any type of death during this action is still a casualty of the war. If two helicopters crash together while in the region, we have to attribute that to the mission they are on. I don’t think anybody (least of all the military) would dispute that. > [@](#): > > Thanks for the info memory leak. BTW- do you have a source on that info so I can track these developments as well? CNN maintains a fairly accurate list of fatalities going back to the beginning of the war. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/31 "2003-06-24T10:08:57Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/23/sprj.irq.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/23/sprj.irq.main/index.html) > > • A U.S. soldier was fatally wounded Sunday in a rocket-propelled grenade attack on a convoy in Khan Azad, 12 miles south of the Iraqi capital, an Army spokeswoman said. Nineteen U.S. troops have been killed in hostile action since President Bush declared an end to major combat in Iraq on May 1, according to the Pentagon. Another 37 have died in what are described as nonhostile incidents. > > • The U.S. military said it had no reports of casualties from an oil pipeline explosion and fire Sunday in the town of Hit, about 90 miles west of Baghdad. The military did not say what caused the fire and explosion, or provide further details > > • In the same area Sunday, the U.S. Army said a Humvee from the U.S. 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment ran over a land mine, injuring two soldiers. > > • Also Sunday, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Richard Lugar, R-Indiana, said on ABC’s “This Week” that Bush should make clear that U.S. involvement in Iraq is a “five-year plan.” ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/32 "2003-06-24T10:15:02Z")
At the current rate, that would put the total cost at around 2000 serviceman deaths for the whole of the 5 year “peace”. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/33 "2003-06-24T15:45:34Z")
[Six British troops killed in Iraq](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/24/sprj.irq.intl.main/index.html), plus another eight injured in a separate attack. Anyone know what the over/under date is on Tony Blair’s forced resignation? ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/34 "2003-06-24T15:56:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*[Six British troops killed in Iraq](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/24/sprj.irq.intl.main/index.html), plus another eight injured in a separate attack. > > Anyone know what the over/under date is on Tony Blair’s forced resignation? \*\* Attacks near Basra are not a good sign. Could mean the fighting is now spreading to the so far comparitively quiet shiites. Very bad news if so. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/35 "2003-06-24T16:00:54Z")
And with situations as described in this article, [http://www.timesdispatch.com/frontpage/MGBSRBH6BHD.html](http://www.timesdispatch.com/frontpage/MGBSRBH6BHD.html), we’re not likely to win hearts and minds anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/36 "2003-06-24T17:12:15Z")
Whatever the comparison rates of casualties are, the perception of the American public may not be based on them. > [@](#): > > [abcnews](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/US/iraq030623_poll.html) > While 51 percent of Americans in a new ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll call the current level of U.S. casualties “acceptable,” that’s down from 66 percent in early April, when Baghdad fell with little organized resistance. And the number calling casualties “unacceptable” has jumped by 16 points, to 44 percent. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/37 "2003-06-24T18:55:23Z")
Rumsfeld said that this is part of the continuing “war on terror.” Go figure. I thought it was mopping up the results of his half-assed war plan. Sounds like organized fedayeen militia to me. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/38 "2003-06-27T12:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030627\_425.html](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030627_425.html) > > An American soldier was killed in an ambush in southern Iraq, the U.S. military said Friday, after it announced arrests in the possible abduction of two U.S. servicemen. The soldier was killed while investigating a car theft Thursday in Najaf, 100 miles southwest of Baghdad, a statement from U.S. Central Command said. The soldier was attached to the 1st U.S. Marine Expeditionary Force. > > Also Friday, Sgt. Patrick Compton, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad, said three suspects were detained in the disappearance of two American soldiers. U.S. forces kept up ground and aerial searches in search of the two soldiers, Compton said. > > The report of the soldier’s death near Najaf came amid yet more attacks Americans on Friday. > > Just northwest of Baghdad Friday morning, a U.S. Army truck struck an explosive device on a dirt road. A U.S. soldier and an eyewitness said wounded Americans were evacuated by helicopter. It was not clear what the explosive was. > [@](#): > > [http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/06/26/iraqattack\_030626](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/06/26/iraqattack_030626) > > BAGHDAD - Two U.S. soldiers were killed on Thursday in separate attacks in Iraq that also left 14 troops and two Iraqi civilians dead. > > Opposition forces have increased the ferocity of their resistance in recent days, killing at least nine U.S. and British troops this week. > > In the latest attack, U.S. special forces were ambushed southwest of Baghdad, the Pentagon said. One soldier was killed by hostile fire, Central Command said, and eight others were wounded. > > Also on Thursday, one U.S. soldier was killed when a bomb exploded on a road leading to Baghdad’s airport. The soldier died after suffering a major wound in the face. A second soldier was wounded. > > In yet another attack on Thursday, two Iraqis working for the electricity authority were killed when grenades were thrown at a convoy in Baghdad. > > The Pentagon also says two soldiers are missing in the Baghdad area. > > On Wednesday, a U.S. marine was killed when his three-man emergency response team went to help three other marines ambushed in the town of Hillah south of Baghdad. Not to mention the 9 British soldiers killed in a single incident. It seems resistance is increasing rather than decreasing. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/39 "2003-06-27T13:32:02Z")
But we WON! W even landed on an aircraft carrier, for crying out loud. Weren’t those Iraqis sufficiently impressed? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585/40 "2003-06-28T11:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/28/sprj.irq.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/28/sprj.irq.main/index.html) > > One U.S. soldier was killed and four others were wounded Friday night when their convoy was attacked in a northern neighborhood of Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman said. An Iraqi, who was working as an interpreter, was also wounded in the attack. . . The wounded were taken to the Army’s 28th combat support hospital in Baghdad. > > The assault is the latest in a string of attacks against the coalition that shows no sign of slowing despite Operation Desert Scorpion, the military operation designed to crack down on Iraqi insurgents. > > A day earlier, two U.S. troops were killed and eight wounded, the military said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-steady-drip-drip-of-american-fatalities-in-iraq/183585.md?page=3)