# The story of the Jews escaping slavery in Egypt and wandering the desert is fiction, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2026, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800 "2026-01-18T16:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/1 "2026-01-18T16:14:35Z")
I have a Jewish heritage on my mother’s side, but she didn’t practice the religion, and neither do I. I have, however, sat in on a few Seders in my lifetime (the last in college, more than 25 years ago). As a result, I am familiar generally with one of the foundational stories of the Jewish people: that they were slaves in Egypt, and that Moses (aided by God) led them to freedom, where they wandered the desert for 40 years. It’s all fiction, right? I mean no disrespect at all, but it’s my understanding that there is no record of Jewish slavery, or an Exodus, in Ancient Egypt (and they kept good records). The pyramids weren’t even built by slaves. And we can expect a clear archeological record of a nomadic people, yet it is my understanding that there is no evidence for Jewish nomads for several decades. Am I wrong? Is there some historical record that does match (however vaguely) the biblical story of the Jewish people’s origins? Or is it indeed mythology, no more accurate that the story of. Romulus and Remus suckling on a she-wolf. > **[Ancient Rome - Foundation Myth, Romulus & Remus | Britannica](https://www.britannica.com/place/ancient-Rome/Romes-foundation-myth)** > > Ancient Rome - Foundation Myth, Romulus & Remus: Although Greek historians did not write seriously about Rome until the Pyrrhic War, they were aware of Rome’s existence long before then. In accordance with their custom of explaining the origin of... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/2 "2026-01-18T17:11:51Z")
My understanding is that your understanding understands history correctly. It’s all myth, compiled and interleaved from multiple ancient source documents. Some later events do have historical backing, but a good bit of myth is, so to speak, larded among the known wars and kings. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/3 "2026-01-18T17:13:14Z")
Moses? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/4 "2026-01-18T17:13:41Z")
It’s allegorical. I was raised Reform Jewish and was taught that it was allegorical. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/5 "2026-01-18T17:15:11Z")
That is a mighty big allegory that is taken to be fact by a lot of believers. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/6 "2026-01-18T17:18:25Z")
I can only speak for my particular upbringing. Biblical literalism and how many people follow that is probably out of scope for this debate but it’s not anywhere close to a majority of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/7 "2026-01-18T17:20:20Z")
I didn’t say humanity, and I didn’t say majority. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/8 "2026-01-18T17:21:06Z")
**Moderating** : You’re going off-topic pretty early @Czarcasm. Please refrain. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/9 "2026-01-18T18:53:30Z")
Given how long ago it was, I don’t think you can disprove the thesis that some group of proto-Israelites escaped slavery in Egypt in ways that they perceived to be miraculous, and then built a religion around the experience. But clearly it can’t be literally true as written. By the Biblical account, there were about 2 million Israelites leaving Egypt, and certainly we’d expect a group that size to have left clear archaeological evidence. And it’s hard to imagine that at least the more dramatic Plagues wouldn’t have been noted by Egyptian historians; “hey, remember that time when it was pitch dark for three days and then a whole bunch of people died for no apparent reason?” ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/10 "2026-01-18T19:38:33Z")
I don’t think fiction is correct word. The historical consensus is they are a set of myths that have some basis in real events (though the basis could be “ancient Egypt was a real place, and it was ruled by a pharaoh, and they had some interactions with Semitic Canaanite people from the the regions described in Genesis and Exodus, during a time period loosely corresponding to when the stories where meant to have taken place”) Historians being historians there are some who reject even that and say the entire thing was actually fiction made up completely during the Babylonian exile. But that’s a minority view. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/11 "2026-01-18T20:27:27Z")
It’s a comforting mythology for the Israelites as God’s chosen people. “If Egypt couldn’t wipe us out, no one can. That’s the power of our God.” > **Summary** > > But I _do_ believe Israel is God’s chosen people. A _lot_ of Christians believe that. They just screw up all the time, like they did in the Bible with the golden calf, and like they’re doing in modern times with the Palestinian genocide. But if Hitler couldn’t wipe them out, no one will. > > And they’re wrong about Jesus, of course. He really _is_ the son of God. But not the Jesus that conservative Christians try to fit into their worldview. The _biblical_ Jesus. ETA: Sorry, got off-topic. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/12 "2026-01-18T20:32:01Z")
The bulk of your post belongs in a different thread. It is the perfect jumping off post for a complete hijack of the OP. I’m going to hide most of it. **Moderating:** ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/13 "2026-01-18T20:48:13Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Given how long ago it was, I don’t think you can disprove the thesis that some group of proto-Israelites escaped slavery in Egypt in ways that they perceived to be miraculous, and then built a religion around the experience. Egypt definitely ruled over the land where the Israelite culture emerged just before it did. I can see how a story of conquest by Egypt would easily morph into a cultural foundation story where the people were literally enslaved _in_ Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/14 "2026-01-18T20:52:19Z")
I’m reasonably sure there is a general consensus that Egypt did have semitic people serving as slaves or servants. So that would also add to the story. No proof the proto-Israelites were held in Egypt, but related tribes at least and it is not unlikely that some descendants ended being Israelites. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/15 "2026-01-18T20:54:53Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > As a result, I am familiar generally with one of the foundational stories of the Jewish people: that they were slaves in Egypt, and that Moses (aided by God) led them to freedom, where they wandered the desert for 40 years. > > It’s all fiction, right? > > I mean no disrespect at all, but it’s my understanding that there is no record of Jewish slavery, or an Exodus, in Ancient Egypt (and they kept good records). The pyramids weren’t even built by slaves. The Egyptians certainly kept slaves from the Middle east. Lots of them in fact, depending on the period. They didnt differentiate them by religion. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Given how long ago it was, I don’t think you can disprove the thesis that some group of proto-Israelites escaped slavery in Egypt in ways that they perceived to be miraculous, and then built a religion around the experience. Right. More myth than legend, but likely some small kernel of truth there. But they werent really recognized as “The Jewish people” until much later, around 1200BC and likely somewhat earlier. > **[Slavery in ancient Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt)** > > Slavery in ancient Egypt existed at least since the Old Kingdom period. Discussions of slavery in Pharaonic Egypt are complicated by terminology used by the Egyptians to refer to different classes of servitude over the course of dynastic history. Interpretation of the textual evidence of classes of slaves in ancient Egypt has been difficult to differentiate by word usage alone. There were three types of enslavement in Ancient Egypt: chattel slavery, bonded labor, and forced labor. Eve The wo... Note that the Stele mentions “Carried off is Asqaluni” and that means “carried off into slavery”, and that region is well within Israel (Ashkelon). So, yeah, Semitic peoples carried off into slavery- maybe proto Jewish? or when they bragged " [Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites) is laid waste—its seed is no more;" they also looted slaves- which was standard practice. So saying “there is no evidence the Ancient Egyptians had slaves from that region” is totally bogus. > **[Merneptah Stele](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele)** > > The Merneptah Stele, also known as the Israel Stele or the Victory Stele of Merneptah, is an inscription by Merneptah, a pharaoh in ancient Egypt who reigned from 1213 to 1203 BCE. Discovered by Flinders Petrie at Thebes in 1896, it is now housed at the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. > The text is largely an account of Merneptah's victory over the ancient Libyans and their allies, but the last three of the 28 lines deal with a separate campaign in Canaan, then part of Egypt's imperial possessions. It i... > [@griffin1977](#): > > The historical consensus is they are a set of myths that have some basis in real events (though the basis could be “ancient Egypt was a real place, and it was ruled by a pharaoh, and they had some interactions with Semitic Canaanite people from the the regions described in Genesis and Exodus, during a time period loosely corresponding to when the stories where meant to have taken place”) Make sense. So as I said- more myth than legend, but likely some fairly well educated people, whose ancestors were captured as slaves- made the trek “back home” during one of the 'weak pharaoh" periods. “Wandering for 40 years” is highly doubtful, since the OT was full of numerology, instead of real numbers. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’m reasonably sure there is a general consensus that Egypt did have semitic people serving as slaves or servants. So that would also add to the story. No proof the proto-Israelites were held in Egypt, but related tribes at least and it is not unlikely that some descendants ended being Israelites. I concur. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/16 "2026-01-18T20:55:11Z")
Some scholars feel that the earlier Plagues would have been read by the original audience as parodies of everyday inconveniences of Egyptian life. A modern equivalent would be a story about an escape from New York City in which the LORD cursed New York with traffic jams, and weakened the hearts of their football teams so they could not play well. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/17 "2026-01-18T20:57:38Z")
Also, AFAIK there is no other people in the world whose origin myth has them starting out as slaves, so (assuming that it’s true), that’s further evidence for some kernel of historical fact in the myth. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/18 "2026-01-18T21:03:06Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > The pyramids weren’t even built by slaves. To be clear, the Bible does not have Hebrews building pyramids. I think the pyramids were built sometime like a thousand years before any Hebrews were in Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/19 "2026-01-18T21:07:51Z")
I’m _sure_ I recall a Straight Dope column on this, but can’t find it. I did find some related threads while searching; this 2015 one seems most relevant: [Why was Jewish slavery and exodus from Egypt fabricated?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-was-jewish-slavery-and-exodus-from-egypt-fabricated/729931) > [@DrDeth](#): > > “Wandering for 40 years” is highly doubtful, since the OT was full of numerology, instead of real numbers. Also, it would leave plenty of evidence, much of which would still exist in a desert environment even after so long. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800/20 "2026-01-18T21:09:45Z")
Right, the Bible says they were building “storehouse cities”, which the commentators interpret as “cities with storehouses for grain”. I mention this mainly because it gives us one more opportunity to laugh at Ben Carson, and point out that pyramids were not used to store grain. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-jews-escaping-slavery-in-egypt-and-wandering-the-desert-is-fiction-right/1026800.md?page=2)