# The story of the phone who loved other phones **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943 "2003-10-12T02:05:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/101 "2003-10-24T02:06:59Z")
> [@](#): > > When you’re being discriminated against with housing and employment, how do you know its about your sexual orientation? Is there a question on the application asking ‘A: Straight B: Gay C:Other’? Well, if I move into a one-bedroom apartment with another fellow, and the landlord sees our wedding pictures when he comes to repair the windows, it’s gonna be fairly obvious. > [@](#): > > As far as social discrimination, prejudice, exclusion, hatred, intimidation, and violence, the only thing you can do anything about is the violence and intimidation parts. Well, I’d better be disagreeing with this, considering how I’m gonna be spending the weekend at Allies training, learning how to do something about it by doing high-school educational visits. > [@](#): > > The rest are not going to be changed, no matter how many times y’all march. Its sad, yes, but it doesn’t change that people don’t often change. It’s changed for the better in my lifetime. We still have a long row to hoe, but it’s happening. > [@](#): > > And as far as the ‘other countries,’ unless you’re living in one of those ‘other countries,’ its a moot argument. I see. Nothing outside Canada exists, and nobody but Canadians are interesting, and the suffering of others like me is of no relevance because it’s elsewhere in the world…? > [@](#): > > Point to me, in the Constitution, where ‘marriage’ is a right. Uh huh. Thought so. Well, since I’m a Canuck… > [@](#): > > PAR CES MOTIFS, LE TRIBUNAL: > ACCUEILLE la requête des requérants; > DÉCLARE l’article 5 de la Loi d’harmonisation no. 1 du droit fédéral avec le droit civil inopérant et incompatible avec les droits garantis par l’article 15 (1) de la Charte canadienne des droits et libertés. > [@](#): > > _translation:_ > By these presents, the tribunal: > accepts the plaintiffs’ request; > declares that article 5 of _Act no. 1 respecting harmonization of federal and civil law_ inoperable and incompatible with the rights guaranteed by [article 15 (1) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.](http://www.laurentia.com/ccrf/ccrf.htm#er) [_Hendricks and Leboeuf v. Quebec_](http://www.samesexmarriage.ca/legal/quebec_case/QuebecSept62002.pdf); similarly in certain [other decisions.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Canada) \*exual orientation is a prohibited grounds of discrimination under the charter via _Egan v. Canada._ Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/102 "2003-10-24T03:04:02Z")
**fushj00mang** : 1. “Gay” refers to homosexuality. 2. Your rifle did something bad. 3. You call your rifle “gay”. Add 1, 2, and 3 and you get - 4. Homosexuals are bad. Now, you say that “gay” also has other meanings. That you don’t mean _homosexual_ when you call your rifle gay. Well, okay. Have you considered calling it ‘hay’, for instance? As in, “Damn, this effing rifle is so hay!”. No, you haven’t. Why not? BECAUSE THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL CONTEXT TO USE “HAY” THERE! “Gay” works for you because of it’s common parlance context of “homosexual”. Look, for all I know, you’re not a conscious homophobe and are a secure, sensible inidvidual. However, when you make this reference, you’re hurting a lot of people. Isn’t that reason enough to quit? You apparently don’t like people calling you ‘chink’ because YOU think it is derogatory. Well, calling things ‘gay’ seems derogatory to a whole bunch of people, both straight and gay, out there. No harm stopping, is there? Or does being a macho, military person mean never admitting one just might be in the wrong? My apologies for butting in here, **Esprix** , **matt**. I just couldn’t stand the absurdity of it all anymore… ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/103 "2003-10-24T03:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aasna \* > \*\ ***fushj00mang** : > > 1. “Gay” refers to homosexuality. > > 2. Your rifle did something bad. > > 3. You call your rifle “gay”. > > Add 1, 2, and 3 and you get - > 4. Homosexuals are bad. > > Now, you say that “gay” also has other meanings. That you don’t mean _homosexual_ when you call your rifle gay. > > Well, okay. Have you considered calling it ‘hay’, for instance? As in, “Damn, this effing rifle is so hay!”. > > No, you haven’t. Why not? BECAUSE THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL CONTEXT TO USE “HAY” THERE! “Gay” works for you because of it’s common parlance context of “homosexual”. > > Look, for all I know, you’re not a conscious homophobe and are a secure, sensible inidvidual. However, when you make this reference, you’re hurting a lot of people. Isn’t that reason enough to quit? > > You apparently don’t like people calling you ‘chink’ because YOU think it is derogatory. Well, calling things ‘gay’ seems derogatory to a whole bunch of people, both straight and gay, out there. No harm stopping, is there? > > Or does being a macho, military person mean never admitting one just might be in the wrong? > My apologies for butting in here, **Esprix** , **matt**. I just couldn’t stand the absurdity of it all anymore… \*\* Although I don’t think people should call anything gay, I don’t follow the logic. 1. Grass is green 2. You buy garbage bags. 3. The garbage bags you buy are green. Therefore you are buying grass. It is painting a picture that doesn’t take into account a lot of variables. As for the context of ‘gay’ I again think that people need to be educated. Now that said if you ask someone not to use it as it is offensive, that’s pretty much all the education they should need. People use the word ‘Christ’ all the time, and I personally think they shouldn’t. I don’t think they’re anti-religious because of it, I think they don’t understand exactly what they’re doing, although some do. But I do thing that there are some who don’t really care who they offend, in any situation. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/104 "2003-10-24T13:07:59Z")
**Svt4Him** , your analogy is totally off. Those garbage bags you buy ARE green, objectively. I doubt you could say the the gun, OBJECTIVELY, is gay. Unless it really does love other guns. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/105 "2003-10-24T15:24:13Z")
**LaurAnge** , I don’t think the point is the garbage, it’s the variables. I can think of another if you like, but I’d rather not get stuck on the story. Suckers are sweet The basketball player made a sweet play The basketball player is a sucker. But again, my issue is that because someone uses an offensive term, they’re not necessarily homophobic. Maybe just ignorant and possibly proud if they don’t want to stop using it. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/106 "2003-10-24T15:28:00Z")
Some people don’t seem to grasp analogies, Svt4Him. You might be one those people. ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/107 "2003-10-24T15:43:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Svt4Him \* > \*\*\*\*But again, my issue is that because someone uses an offensive term, they’re not necessarily homophobic. Maybe just ignorant and possibly proud if they don’t want to stop using it. \*\* If you’ve bothered to read my post in entirety, you will find that I’m making precisely this point. Based on **f** ’s previous posts in this thread, the man seems completely incapable of seeing why “what a gay rifle” could possibly be seen as derogatory. I attempted to show him why, then gave him the benefit of the doubt, and finally suggested a slight compromise on his part might be a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/108 "2003-10-24T15:53:47Z")
Sorry, that should be “ **fushj00mang** ’s posts”. Don’t know where the rest of his name disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/109 "2003-10-24T17:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. “Gay” refers to homosexuality. > > 2. Your rifle did something bad. > > 3. You call your rifle “gay”. 1. “A” has a meaning “B” 2. An object “C” does something bad 3. You call object “C” “A”, because it did something bad 4. “A” is equated with bad ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/110 "2003-10-24T17:09:03Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. “Gay” refers to homosexuality. > > 2. Your rifle did something bad. > > 3. You call your rifle “gay”. > > Add 1, 2, and 3 and you get - > 4. Homosexuals are bad. 1. “A” has a meaning “B” 2. An object “C” does something bad 3. You call object “C” “A”, because it did something bad 4. “A” is equated with bad ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/111 "2003-10-24T18:42:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aasna \* > \*\*If you’ve bothered to read my post in entirety, you will find that I’m making precisely this point. > > Based on **f** ’s previous posts in this thread, the man seems completely incapable of seeing why “what a gay rifle” could possibly be seen as derogatory. > > I attempted to show him why, then gave him the benefit of the doubt, and finally suggested a slight compromise on his part might be a good idea. \*\* I agree with you, sorry if it sounded like I didn’t. But I just disagreed with the analogy. **Homebrew** you may be right, although I do understand it, I still think the logic is flawed. That was my only point. I guess the people who have an easy time understanding analogies would then be able to see from my analogy why I had a hard time with it, or it could be that there’s more than one of ‘us who don’t understand’ around. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/112 "2003-10-24T19:27:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Svt4Him** _ > > … because someone uses an offensive term, they’re not necessarily homophobic. Maybe just ignorant and possibly proud if they don’t want to stop using it. I will agree that if someone uses the word “gay” in a derogatory way they are not necessarily homophobic (the first time they use it); _however_, I do believe that if they’d put just a little bit of thought into their word choice they probably would have realized what a slur it is, and furthermore after someone explains why it’s offensive to an entire community if they continue to either justify themselves (beyond, “I’m sorry, that’s not what I meant to say”) or continue to use the word, \then\ they’re a bigot. IMHO, anyway. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/113 "2003-10-25T01:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Svt4Him \* > **I agree with you, sorry if it sounded like I didn’t. But I just disagreed with the analogy.** This is getting to be a rather pointless diversion in nitpicking on all sides, but oh well. In the first place, my four point were not an analogy. An analogy is a comparison, and I made no comparisons. What I desribed was an event that actually occured in our protagonist’s life. All I did was put it in context for him. In fact, if you look at **dakravel** ’s post, he/she put it more clearly that did I. > [@](#): > > 1. “A” has a meaning “B” > 2. An object “C” does something bad > 3. You call object “C” “A”, _because it did something bad_ > 4. “A” is equated with bad (italicising mine) In any case, most of us seem to be on the same side of the equation. I’m just curious if **fushj00mang** has anything to add. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/114 "2003-10-25T07:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fushj00mang \* > \*\*I haven’t seen a ‘straight pride rally,’ ever. Not once. \*\* There’s one every year. It’s called Valentine’s Day. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/115 "2003-10-25T18:54:07Z")
To rejigger the analogy one more time for those who still aren’t getting it, try this: We know that the word “sweet” has a generally positive connotation. “Check out the sweet car!” “I got a sweet deal on my house.” “That girl is so sweet.” If you call something or someone “sweet” you’re making a positive assessment of that thing or person, and the language that you’re choosing **in context** demonstrates that assessment. When you say it, you’re doing so because sweet equals good. You wouldn’t call a broken down Yugo “sweet” or receive a paper back with a D- grade and exclaim “Sweet!” Why? Because sweet wouldn’t be a proper exclamation in such circumstances. Now, if _would_ see a broken down Yugo and say “That car is so gay, man.” or get back that paper with the big red D- and say “This is gay!” what are you saying? You’re saying that gay is synonymous with something unwanted, stupid, broken or otherwise unacceptable or unworkable. Gay equals bad. Now, why does gay equal bad? Gay, a word which we’ve already defined as having two common meanings: either bright, cheerful, happy and silly _or_ homosexual. Unless the correlation of gay with bad is somehow an association with “bright, cheerful, happy and silly” with things which are bad, the _only obvious, logical explanation for “gay” as a pejorative term is the word’s definition and association with homosexuals_. Whether someone _intends_ to slur homosexuals when they say “my rifle was acting gay” or what have you, that is the unspoken implication of their words and _it is offensive on its on merits_ regardless of the intent of the speaker. When I was a girl, growing up in semi-rural Mississippi in the 1960’s, it wasn’t uncommon to hear the word “nigger” attached to anything shabby and in need of repair, at least from certain members of the community. “Drive on down the road a piece and turn when you see the big blue nigger house.” or “Bubba bought himself a nigger car, but he’s gonna fix it up right nice.” Some speakers intended this as a slight by association – blacks never had anything nice, or if they did it didn’t stay nice for long – but even when they didn’t, it’d put a lump in my throat nonetheless, because I knew (from comments from the same segment of the community) that **I** was a nigger, and if nothing good was ever referred to that way, that must mean something about me. Words have meaning, but so does context. If the context of your usage is offensive, what you’ve said is offensive, period. It doesn’t matter if you are or are not prejudiced against whomever or whatever is implicated in what you’ve said – when you cast out a slur, it’s like a blanket, and it covers whether you mean it to or not. ---
**Author:** ![Kenshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenshi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/116 "2003-10-26T05:11:17Z")
A lesbian said my shirt is gay once. Does that make her homophobic?? ---
**Author:** ![dakravel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@dakravel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dakravel)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2003, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/117 "2003-10-26T08:13:42Z")
Maybe it was actually gay. I mean, just today my friend(male) was going to wear a tight little pink shirt with striped purple pants, but another friend said that it might be “kinda gay” to do so. Did he mean it was bad to do so? Not really. Did he mean it was flamboyant and might possibly be construed as homosexual? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/118 "2003-10-26T11:48:23Z")
What about words like ‘bitch’ and ‘fuck’ which are bad when used perjoritively, but ok when used with their actual meanings? Note: I don’t think people who use ‘gay’ to mean ‘bad’ have the meanings totally divorced in their minds, but I don’t know if you can say it’s impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Mercutio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Mercutio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mercutio)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/119 "2003-10-26T14:15:48Z")
Guys, guys… Svt4Him and fushy are completely right. Calling something gay like that isn’t derogatory. Stop being such a bunch of niggers. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943/120 "2003-10-26T14:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > A lesbian said my shirt is gay once. Does that make her homophobic?? Maybe she meant that she liked it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-story-of-the-phone-who-loved-other-phones/206943.md?page=7)