# The Straight Dope, Long As You Toe The Line **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594 "2001-09-04T00:40:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/103 "2001-09-07T17:42:12Z")
OK. What Collounsbury is saying is that he wishes that sometime in the past, as a previous occupation, that he was a cheesemaker. Not that he wishes to be a cheesemaker right now, but that he WAS a cheesemaker but is a cheesemaker no longer. Well, I suppose that logically he might still be a cheesemaker if he was a cheesemaker in the past. I suppose cheesemaking is one of those professions one is glad to have been, not a profession one is glad to be. Perhaps he feels the hardship and extremity one faces as a cheesemaker would have made him a better person, but he does not want to face that hardship and extremity now. This could be similar to someone wishing they had joined the army when they were younger, but has no desire to join the army now. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/104 "2001-09-07T17:53:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The ones I can’t stand are the ordinary members who take it on themselves to be **little fascist vigilante cops** , and lay into any other member who questions what the moderators do. Oh, please. Like words on a screen equates to kicking in someone’s door. But I’ll play. You show me one thread where your imaginary thugs lay into someone _solely because that person questioned a moderator’s actions._ Just one. C’mon, I’m waiting. > [@](#): > > I propose a new rule: anytime anyone wants to question a moderator’s action, let them post a thread, and…this is the new part…let ONLY moderators reply. Nope. How about: anytime anyone wants to question a moderator’s action, let them **email the moderator**. Why is that so hard? If it’s worth a public thread, it’s worth sucking up any flames. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/105 "2001-09-07T18:03:24Z")
On moving and closing threads: It is tougher on our servers to move threads than it is to simply close them. It also takes more of our time- going through the actions of moving it, making note in the “moved threads column” of where the thread now is, etc. Our attitude is this- closing threads is a duty, moving threads is a service. Let’s say you screw up and start a thread in the wrong forum. Now, there are two solutions (aside from simply letting the thread stand, which means that eventually forum descriptions would be pointless)- either we move the thread, or we close the thread and you go off and start a new thread in the correct forum. In the first scenario, the impetus and time is all upon _us_- we must find the thread, move the thread, and make the notations. In the second scenario, the action is shared- we close the thread, you start a second one. If asked nicely, we will move the thread. But our general sense of time and non-wasted energy leads us to prefer to close threads rather than moving them- especially at times when the board is acting slow, or in high-churn areas like GQ. This brings up an addendum- if we believe the misposting is due to deliberate apathy towards the rules, we will simply close the thing. We have no intention of helping out people who aren’t willing to follow the few rules we have. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/106 "2001-09-07T20:33:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > The ones I can’t stand are the ordinary members who take it on themselves to be **little fascist vigilante cops** , and lay into any other member who questions what the moderators do. > > Oh, please. Like words on a screen equates to kicking in someone’s door. > > But I’ll play. You show me one thread where your imaginary thugs lay into someone _solely because that person questioned a moderator’s actions._ > > Just one. > > C’mon, I’m waiting. > > > [@](#): > > > > I propose a new rule: anytime anyone wants to question a moderator’s action, let them post a thread, and…this is the new part…let ONLY moderators reply. > > Nope. How about: anytime anyone wants to question a moderator’s action, let them **email the moderator**. Why is that so hard? > > If it’s worth a public thread, it’s worth sucking up any flames. \*\* Oh come on. I don’t think I really need to post examples. You know as well as I do that when some one does question a mod’s actions, there are members here who are just waiting to pile on with name-calling and insults. Of course, maybe that’s what the Pit’s really for. As for your other point, about emailing the moderators, that’s fine, but I think there’s a value to having these discussions where everyone can see them. People, especially new bees, can use them as examples of how not to behave. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/107 "2001-09-07T20:56:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **javaman** _ > > Oh come on. I don’t think I really need to post examples. Ho, ho, wait a minute - _how_ long have you been posting to the SDMB? Need to get over that, bub. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/108 "2001-09-07T21:15:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* Ho, ho, wait a minute… \*\* Ooh, flashback to my younger days. Hey Hey, Ho Ho, citeless posts have got to go Hey Hey, Ho Ho… ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/109 "2001-09-07T21:27:13Z")
Well _I_ understand what **Javaman** is referring to, **Esprix**. And I don’t think **Javaman** needs to run around and find a bunch of links to support his/her comment. Why? Because it’s one of those general things that happens around here enough that singling one, two, three, or ten, threads out will focus the argument at that point on to the linked examples and what happened in them. I mean, really, **Esprix** , is what **Javaman** is referring to you so unheard of to you? You been around here long enough to understand what he/she is talking about. I think **Javaman’s** comment is dead on . There are a number of people that criticize people for simply asking, or questioning, moderator’s actions. It usually goes along the lines of, ‘They have a thankless job, blah blah blah, and they certainly don’t need to explain their actions to you or me, etc. etc. etc., and if you don’t like it, then go out and get your own message board, on and on and on.’ It’d be nice if someone could question a moderator’s action and not have that action alone then become the sole topic of that thread. Question- answer- move on, instead of, question- criticize and counter criticize- hijack and joke around about nothing in particular- get closed. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/110 "2001-09-07T21:28:59Z")
I’m not sure why this thread is still going. **Clare** and **Manhattan** patched things up on the previous page. Clare crossed the line, Manhattan called her on it, Clare argued with him, Manhattan then extended an olive branch and offered friendly advice, and Clare “took his point”. I say we give her a chance here. She’s smart, but abrasive, which sounds like she’ll fit in fine here. She was merely suffering a case of newbie culture shock. She’s over it. All this happened a few day ago, and she hasn’t stepped out of line since. Show’s over, folks. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/111 "2001-09-07T22:33:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I propose a new rule: anytime anyone wants to question a moderator’s action, let them post a thread, and…this is the new part…let ONLY moderators reply. If that were the case, the moderators would most likely miss the thread, and the question would never be answered. I mean, c’mon… does one really need to be a Mod in order to answer “Why can’t I post flirting threads in GQ”? This isn’t rocket science, here. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/112 "2001-09-07T23:05:56Z")
**CNoteChris** , your _specific_ references make sense. I more got the impression from **java** that he was saying, “If someone criticizes a moderator, people come to their _individual_ defense,” as opposed to your references, which indicate people coming to _the office of “Moderator”'s_ defense. Within those descriptions, you, I’d agree with; **java** I wouldn’t. I’d want to see specific instances of someone coming to **manhattan** or **Eutychus** ’ defense before agreeing to that; otherwise, it becomes one of those “well, _everybody_ knows it’s true” things that is, after all, not. After all, _everybody_ knows going swimming after eating will give you cramps, right? Say something enough and at least people might believe it, even if it isn’t true. I see a big difference between jumping in to defend the individual moderators (which I do not think happens “all the time”) and jumping in to defend the job of moderator (which I do see when people post pathetic whines about those evil Nazis/fascists/meanies). And if someone has a _specific_ question about a _specific_ thread, I tend to see moderators come in and answer their questions, particularly if it’s in ATMB; put it in the Pit, and be vague and/or accusatory, and yeah, you’ll get your ass roasted, and deservedly so. The moderators do have a hard job, and micromanaging and calling to task every single decision they make does make their jobs more difficult. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Clare\_Ashworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Clare\_Ashworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clare_Ashworth)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/113 "2001-09-07T23:08:36Z")
It’s difficult, because now I can see it from all sides! The mods and the regulars aren’t always necessarily right, but then I was stroppy and arsey, too! I am like that… I think the best I can say is that I agree to use the agreed system when I wish to argue. I might well step out of line, but will doubtless be told! ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/114 "2001-09-07T23:24:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Clare Ashworth \* > **The mods and the regulars aren’t always necessarily right…** Actually, I am always right, but nobody else believes it. Instead they stick to their “facts” and “common sense” and try to debunk my never-ending rightness. Oh sure, I may have admitted wrongness from time-to-time, but it’s all part of my master plan to take of the planet. Feign humility to gain trust and all that. I also happen to be the center of the universe. That will be made public soon, but Barbara Walters doesn’t return my calls. I mean really, you’d think a scientific discovery of the magnitude of the _entire_ universe revolving around one person would at least get a sound bite on the news, but _Nooooooo_, it’s all Gary Condit and forest fires and so-called human interest stories about a Rhesus monkey that saved the life of a toddler trapped in a well (ok, I kinda liked that one), but not one mention of my place in the world. What kind of fucked up priorities are these? What? Hang on, is my [Autopost-A-Matic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=82107) on again? It is! Son of a bitch! Damn this thing! ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/115 "2001-09-07T23:25:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > It is tougher on our servers to move threads than it is to simply close them. It also takes more of our time- going through the actions of moving it, making note in the “moved threads column” of where the thread now is, etc. I believe you, **John** , but it _seems_ that moving a thread should be as simple as: UPDATE threads SET forum\_id=“4” WHERE thread\_id=“85183”; Hell, put in a LOW\_PRIORITY and it can’t be any harder than a simple SELECT and certainly not any harder than a JOIN or an INSERT. And if you’re doing that through a web form, it’s trivial to have it automatically create a “moved threads” post/thread/page and email anybody that’s posted on the thread (if they want). I understand, of course, that the database layout may not be optimal and that you may have to wait for the company to add new features on their own time. This is, however, a good-sized board, and you may have some clout. > [@](#): > > Our attitude is this- closing threads is a duty, moving threads is a service. > > Let’s say you screw up and start a thread in the wrong forum. Now, there are two solutions (aside from simply letting the thread stand, which means that eventually forum descriptions would be pointless)- either we move the thread, or we close the thread and you go off and start a new thread in the correct forum. In the first scenario, the impetus and time is all upon _us_- we must find the thread, move the thread, and make the notations. In the second scenario, the action is shared- we close the thread, you start a second one. Yes, but I take offense at the second solution from an aesthetic perspective. Now you have two threads; one of which has an ugly icon and has lost one of the two essences of threadliness: the ability to be posted to. Sure, the thread will quickly sink to the bottom of the list, but it’s the principle of the thing. > [@](#): > > This brings up an addendum- if we believe the misposting is due to deliberate apathy towards the rules, we will simply close the thing. We have no intention of helping out people who aren’t willing to follow the few rules we have. Sure, of course. But I think that if Clare’s first off-topic post had been moved, she would have caught on to the rules much quicker, with considerably less blustering, posturing, and whining. And we would be eradicating ignorance efficiently. ---
**Author:** ![Clare\_Ashworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Clare\_Ashworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clare_Ashworth)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/116 "2001-09-07T23:48:28Z")
That may well have been true, jmonster. But I don’t want to start it all off again! I have been told. I am humbled. (For now). ---
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/117 "2001-09-07T23:59:30Z")
Yeah, Clare, you say that now but what Im wondering is… does anyone here like cheese? My favourite’s Wensleydale. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/118 "2001-09-08T00:06:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\ ***CNoteChris** , your _specific_ references make sense. I more got the impression from **java** that he was saying, “If someone criticizes a moderator, people come to their _individual_ defense,” as opposed to your references, which indicate people coming to _the office of “Moderator”'s_ defense. Within those descriptions, you, I’d agree with; **java** I wouldn’t. I’d want to see specific instances of someone coming to **manhattan** or **Eutychus** ’ defense before agreeing to that; otherwise, it becomes one of those “well, _everybody_ knows it’s true” things that is, after all, not. After all, _everybody_ knows going swimming after eating will give you cramps, right? Say something enough and at least people might believe it, even if it isn’t true. > > I see a big difference between jumping in to defend the individual moderators (which I do not think happens “all the time”) and jumping in to defend the job of moderator (which I do see when people post pathetic whines about those evil Nazis/fascists/meanies). And if someone has a _specific_ question about a _specific_ thread, I tend to see moderators come in and answer their questions, particularly if it’s in ATMB; put it in the Pit, and be vague and/or accusatory, and yeah, you’ll get your ass roasted, and deservedly so. The moderators do have a hard job, and micromanaging and calling to task every single decision they make does make their jobs more difficult. > > Esprix \*\* I think I was a little over-broad in my previous statement; I apologize for being vague. I certainly don’t have a problem with members who offer constructive criticism in a reasoned manner. For the most part, this includes defending moderators, whether individually or as a group. It’s true, they do have a difficult, yet necessary, job, and they do have to close threads and ban people occasionally. In alluding to “little fascist vigilante cops”, I meant more the ones who come on loaded with vitriol and say things like “hit the road, fucker”. ---
**Author:** ![Clare\_Ashworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Clare\_Ashworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clare_Ashworth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/119 "2001-09-08T00:12:55Z")
Aha! I attack you, Xanakis, with Dorset Blue Vinney! It would make even the eyes of the staunchest moderator water! It could be my secret weapon! (Thinks how to get soecial supplies…). ---
**Author:** ![xanakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/7bcc69/32.png) [@xanakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanakis)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/120 "2001-09-08T00:18:31Z")
Hmmm… I’ll see your Dorset Vinney and raise you a Red Leicester. ---
**Author:** ![Clare\_Ashworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Clare\_Ashworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clare_Ashworth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/121 "2001-09-08T00:20:44Z")
That should have read ‘special supplies’… ---
**Author:** ![Clare\_Ashworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Clare\_Ashworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clare_Ashworth)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594/122 "2001-09-08T00:25:02Z")
Xanakis - I raise you a Danish Havarti! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-long-as-you-toe-the-line/79594.md?page=7)