Time has already told, many times over, except for those who refuse to acknowledge the obvious.
So I point out that some things about our world took us centuries to understand, and a huge majority more remain totally unexplained especially in the area of the mind and consciousness even after centuries, and you counter that there has been research already going on for decades so enough is enough?
Well, in that case Doctors, I guess I will go shut down the psi programs at universities and private research labs all over the world because you seem to think that my will is in some way influencing their conclusions that more research is warranted. Maybe by mind control at a distance?
Perhaps one per cent of the time, someone who has an idea that smells, feels and looks indistinguishable from the usual run of pseudoscience will turn out to be right.
There are three claims in the ESP field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study: (1) that by thought alone humans can (barely) affect random number generators in computers; (2) that people under mild sensory deprivation can receive thoughts or images ‘projected’ at them; and (3) that young children sometimes report the details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation. I pick these claims not because I think they’re likely to be valid (I don’t), but as examples of contentions that might be true. The last three have at least some, although still dubious, experimental support. Of course, I could be wrong.
What the hell are you talking about?
The failure of the 30 year intense and exceedingly hopeful Princeton University PEAR study isn’t sufficient to disprove that?
What does that even mean?
And ESP is a myth that scammers, people that are self-deluded and people like you keep alive, by telling others that not matter how many times the test fail, how many times someone is exposed as a fraud, how many times an experiment is redone and found to be deficient in its original findings, the answer is is to keep wasting time looking. IF tens of millions believe, it is because they have been taught poor science, misinformed or outright lied to, and you do them no favor by encouraging this unicorn hunt. There is real wonder in this world to fill a thousand lifetimes-why encourage all the bullshit artists to continue their trade?
Do you disagree?
I believe you are being asked if it is enough to disprove it.
Despite your impotent protests scientific research into psi phenomena goes on and will continue to go on. And the amount of time spent on it so far is completely irrelevant to anything. I wouldn’t pretend to be better qualified to tell any credible researchers at any credible institutions that their work is meaningless and I’m surprised that you do.
This isn’t a case of tens of millions of people believing something that someone else told them it is tens of millions of personal observations that all combined indicate to many (more qualified than you to make that determination) something more than mere selection bias or fantasy can explain.
Tell me what you think.
- He addressed a direct question to you.
- You’re not my rabbi.
If I understand your question, I would like to direct you to Irving Langmuir’s Characteristics of Pathological Science, abbreviated and edited here:
[quote]
[ul][li]The maximum effect that is observed is produced by a causative agent of barely detectable intensity…[]The effect is of a magnitude that remains close to the limit of detectability…[]Fantastic theories contrary to experience are suggested.[/ul][/li][/quote]
This pretty much describes the PEAR study: [ol][]No plausible mechanism was proposed[]Tests could not be replicated[]Results were indistinguishable from the noise level[]Researchers saw what they wanted to see, but no one else thought that was significant[/ol]
How long should ESP be investigated, if nothing of substance turns up? At what point would you say, “I think there is nothing to it, and no more time or money should be wasted.”
Where did you get the figure of tens of millions of personal observations concerning ESP? Before, you said it was tens of millions of people believing in ESP-whats the deal with your figures? Where do they come from?
Considering this is an area (not psi per se, but the human mind and consciousness in general) that we haven’t even made a tiny dent in during research that has taken what would be dozens of my lifetimes, I don’t think I could make that determination within the one lifetime I have to work with.
[quote=“Musicat, post:232, topic:753173”]
[ol][li]No plausible mechanism was proposed[/ol][/li][/QUOTE]
This is certainly a relevant point but by itself it’s unconvincing. No mechanism was known for continental drift (now subsumed in plate tectonics) when it was proposed by Alfred Wegener in the first quarter of the twentieth century to explain a range of puzzling data in geology and palaeontology.
The notion was roundly dismissed by all the great geophysicists, who were certain that continents were fixed, not floating on anything, and therefore unable to ‘drift’.
The topic of this thread isn’t the human mind and consciousness in general-it is ESP, and the question I asked of you directly addressed that topic. Try again.
Thanks for bringing that argument up, because it’s not a valid one. Irving Langmuir said
The Wegener proposal of continental drift accumulated increasing, positive evidence over time from many disciplines (seafloor spreading, subduction zones). It did not meet the pseudo-science criteria. It’s a good example of a non-example of the paranormal.
The evidence for ESP has not strengthened over time, and it has been investigated for far longer than continental drift theory. How much longer should we investigate a phenomena with such dis-confirming evidence before deciding there are no rewards?
And you’re honestly not able to recognize the connection between those two things?
I am glad you brought up the nature of this thread though. You seem to be mistaking it for something posted in Great Debates. It is a GQ asking what is the state of scientific research into psi. The answer is that it continues, despite not having produced any answers so far.
Any statements in this thread in favor of or against the validity of such research is personal opinion and irrelevant to the question.
Are you sure?
Objections to pseudoscience on the grounds of unavailable mechanism can be mistaken - although if the contentions violate well-established laws of physics, such objections of course carry great weight.