# The Straight Dope on the Mayan Calendar **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951 "2008-12-19T18:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![baudrunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e56c9b/32.png) [@baudrunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baudrunner)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/1 "2008-12-19T18:31:08Z")
Here’s the straight dope on the Mayan Calendar and what exactly will happen on December 12, 2012. Like it or not, we will all fry when the sun goes into partial collapse and ultimately explodes in a burst of energy we call a nova. A sequence of events begins on December 12, 2012, with the delivery of a giant antimatter pellet which bores its way through the iron mantel of the sun. One half of Toutatis is currently made up of this antimatter pellet, which has been in continuous production for about 5 thousand years. Its orbit around the sun takes it very close to Earth in a regular cycle of four years, ending in 2012, when the descendents of the original Toutarians evacuate from here in preparation for an interstellar passage. The asteroid Toutatis is not really an asteroid. It arrived here on the bow wave of a stellar explosion, which propagates much faster than light speed. Toutatis is inhabited by a race of peoples who are descended from the fallen angels led by Lucifer, who tired of life in the spiritual realm and who collectively chose the flesh over the spirit. In an epic cosmic conflict, God, who for all intents and purposes rules our observable Universe, relented, and granted Lucifer and his followers their wish, with the pre-condition that once they became of the flesh, they could never evolve spiritual identities, and when they died, that was it - from dust and unto dust etc., unlike you or I (provided you’re not one of them), who are a natural product of this anthropocentric Universe and whose evolution is continuous, both in our physical and in our spiritual selves. The conditions were accepted, and they were banished from God’s domain and planted on some arbitrary world. This happened eons ago. I guess life in heaven isn’t all it’s cut out to be. The fallen angels have great knowledge of the workings of the cosmic realm, and have been using that knowledge to advance their cause, which is to maximize their fleshly experience throughout the Universe one world at a time, subjugating populations and enjoying autocratic and absolute dominion. Their duration of stay on any particular world averages about 5 thousand years, after which the indigenous populations will have evolved to the stage where they become superior to their former masters in all respects and the time has come for the descendents of the fallen angels to travel to the next world to lord it over the primitive intelligences evolving there. That next world is about 2000 parsecs away, give or take, and they will arrive there within a few weeks of our sun going nova. Do you doubt the concept of superluminosity? Look at the centre of any super nova, like the crab nebula, for example. You’ll see the original star, still shining as it was before it exploded, because the light from that star is still travelling at normal light speed, and yet the explosion was observed in broad daylight by Chinese and Arab astronomers in 1054. Shock waves travel much faster than light. The original bow wave of that nova arrived here thousands of years ago. Paolo Maffei, the noted Italian astronomer, theorizes that if a neighboring galaxy were to explode, we would experience the initial shock wave in about two weeks. Can we do something about it? Yup, but it will require a major investment in technology and resources, to blow up the soft underbelly of Toutatis with a nuclear warhead on a huge bunker-buster, riding the fastest rocket ever launched from Earth. Time is of the essence. Otherwise, I’ll see you in … wherever. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/2 "2008-12-19T18:36:57Z")
Oh, absolutely. There are more details here at the [Time Cube](http://www.timecube.com/) site. I’ve leave this to the denizens of Great Debates, but I don’t think this is going to end well (and not because Steak Tartare is going to make the sun go nova). We can start with: is it scientifically possible for a star the size of our sun to become a nova? (Hint: the answer is not “yes.”) Now, how will adding anti-matter (which effectively reduces the matter of the star) help, again? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/3 "2008-12-19T18:39:21Z")
I’ll give you 100:1 odds. How much money are you willing to put up? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/4 "2008-12-19T18:44:13Z")
I accidentally my Mayan Calendar. The whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/5 "2008-12-19T18:46:30Z")
The ghost of L. Ron Hubbard rides again! Where do I sign up to ride this rocket? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/6 "2008-12-19T18:50:24Z")
This puts the _Asterix_ series in a whole new light for me, by Toutatis! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/7 "2008-12-19T19:00:44Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > Can we do something about it? Yup, but it will require a major investment in technology and resources, to blow up the soft underbelly of Toutatis with a nuclear warhead on a huge bunker-buster, riding the fastest rocket ever launched from Earth. Time is of the essence. Otherwise, I’ll see you in .. wherever. If Toutatis were really made of antimatter, we wouldn’t need to shoot a warhead nuclear or otherwise at it. Any ordinary matter would do the trick nicely. You wouldn’t by any chance have a newsletter of some sort, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/8 "2008-12-19T19:19:04Z")
When attacking an asteroid, aim for the soft underbelly. That’s handy to know. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/9 "2008-12-19T19:29:36Z")
My understanding is that the Mayan calendar issue is the equivalent of Y2K. It’s not a case where the Mayans planned a calendar centuries in advance and put a big red circle around December 12, 2012. The reality was that their numbering system, like ours, only goes so high and it rolls over on that date. 12-12-2012 was their equivalent of what 12-31-9999 will be for us. If we’re still using the same calendar system eight thousand years from now, we’ll either have to add a fifth digit or start over again at 0000. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/10 "2008-12-19T20:53:43Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > One half of Toutatis is currently made up of this antimatter pellet, which has been in continuous production for about 5 thousand years. So what’s the other half made out of? something that doesn’t react with AM2? > [@](#): > > Its orbit around the sun takes it very close to Earth in a regular cycle of four years, ending in 2012, when the descendents of the original Toutarians evacuate from here in preparation for an interstellar passage. So this four year orbit began a week ago? > [@](#): > > The asteroid Toutatis is not really an asteroid. It arrived here on the bow wave of a stellar explosion, which propagates much faster than light speed. Toutatis is inhabited by a race of peoples who are descended from the fallen angels led by Lucifer, who tired of life in the spiritual realm and who collectively chose the flesh over the spirit. In an epic cosmic conflict, God, who for all intents and purposes rules our observable Universe, relented, and granted Lucifer and his followers their wish, with the pre-condition that once they became of the flesh, they could never evolve spiritual identities, and when they died, that was it - from dust and unto dust etc., unlike you or I (provided you’re not one of them), who are a natural product of this anthropocentric Universe and whose evolution is continuous, both in our physical and in our spiritual selves. The conditions were accepted, and they were banished from God’s domain and planted on some arbitrary world. This happened eons ago. I guess life in heaven isn’t all it’s cut out to be. So… they’re mortal (which I assume is what defines “being made of flesh”), but didn’t die when the last star went nova? Must be all that goat-body hair Satan has… > [@](#): > > The fallen angels have great knowledge of the workings of the cosmic realm, and have been using that knowledge to advance their cause, which is to maximize their fleshly experience throughout the Universe one world at a time, subjugating populations and enjoying autocratic and absolute dominion. Their duration of stay on any particular world averages about 5 thousand years, after which the indigenous populations will have evolved to the stage where they become superior to their former masters in all respects and the time has come for the descendents of the fallen angels to travel to the next world to lord it over the primitive intelligences evolving there. That next world is about 2000 parsecs away, give or take, and they will arrive there within a few weeks of our sun going nova. 2000 parsecs = 6000 light years / 4 weeks = 78,000 times light speed. Ummm… not buying it. > [@](#): > > Do you doubt the concept of superluminosity? Look at the centre of any super nova, like the crab nebula, for example. You’ll see the original star, still shining as it was before it exploded, because the light from that star is still travelling at normal light speed, and yet the explosion was observed in broad daylight by Chinese and Arab astronomers in 1054. Shock waves travel much faster than light. The original bow wave of that nova arrived here thousands of years ago. Paolo Maffei, the noted Italian astronomer, theorizes that if a neighboring galaxy were to explode, we would experience the initial shock wave in about two weeks. The Crab Nebula is from a _super_nova event. > **[Crab Nebula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_nebula)** > > The Crab Nebula (catalogue designations M1, NGC 1952, Taurus A) is a supernova remnant and pulsar wind nebula in the constellation of Taurus. The common name comes from a drawing that somewhat resembled a crab with arms produced by William Parsons, 3rd Earl of Rosse, in 1842 or 1843 using a 36-inch (91 cm) telescope. The nebula was discovered by English astronomer John Bevis in 1731. It corresponds with a bright supernova observed in AD 1054 by Mayan, Japanese, and Arab stargazers; this sup At... Even in a supernova, the star is not completely shattered. > **[Supernova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova)** > > A supernova (pl.: supernovae) is a powerful and luminous explosion of a star. A supernova occurs during the last evolutionary stages of a massive star, or when a white dwarf is triggered into runaway nuclear fusion. The original object, called the progenitor, either collapses to a neutron star or black hole, or is completely destroyed to form a diffuse nebula. The peak optical luminosity of a supernova can be comparable to that of an entire galaxy before fading over several weeks or months. > I... Also: [Nova remnant - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_remnant) "It has an expansion velocity of around 1000 km/s, and has a lifetime of a few centuries. " > [@](#): > > Can we do something about it? Yup, but it will require a major investment in technology and resources, to blow up the soft underbelly of Toutatis with a nuclear warhead on a huge bunker-buster, riding the fastest rocket ever launched from Earth. Time is of the essence. Otherwise, I’ll see you in .. wherever. > > Have a nice day. Soft underbelly? 😕 Like a chink in a Dragon’s scaly skin, eh? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/11 "2008-12-19T20:56:55Z")
bah. Something tells me my math was wrong above. 1 parsec= 3.26 ly… 2000 \* 3.26 = 6520 ly. 6520 \* 52 = 339040 light weeks, divided by 4 = 84760. ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/12 "2008-12-19T20:59:23Z")
This is the most incomprehensible “theory” I’ve ever seen posted on these boards. And you used a different font, too. 1/10 (I’m rating you now, see.) Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/13 "2008-12-19T21:00:58Z")
Wait…where’s my Elves and Orks and Dwarves and Trolls? And Dragons? I was promised magicpunk! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/14 "2008-12-19T21:05:31Z")
I want some of whatever the OP is smoking. That’s got to be some primo stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Claptree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Claptree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claptree)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/15 "2008-12-19T21:14:51Z")
I don’t think Asterix is going to like you dissing his god. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/16 "2008-12-19T22:01:55Z")
[The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2283/does-the-mayan-calendar-predict-the-end-of-the-world-in-2012) (per Dex) on the question. Inquiring minds and all. > [@](#): > > So when the Long Count calendar hits its limit on the 23rd (or 21st) of December four years from now, will that be it – the end of everything? There’s no reason to think so, or to think the Mayans thought so. Just picture a very large and complex odometer flipping over to a long line of zeros and continuing on from there. > > — Dex Is there a debate here? Maybe what DSM diagnosis the op falls under? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/17 "2008-12-19T22:06:57Z")
It must be quite frightening to believe in that. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/18 "2008-12-19T22:08:15Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > A sequence of events begins on December 12, 2012, with the delivery of a giant antimatter pellet which bores its way through the iron mantel of the sun. In addition to the other flaws people are bringing up (and will continue to I’m sure), I’ll just note that the sun does not have an iron mantel, or a mantel of any kind — mantels being those shelves you usually see above fireplaces. It’s a pity though, as the sun could use a few knick-knacks on its mantel to make it feel cozy. However, the sun doesn’t have an iron _mantle_ either, as it’s almost entirely a fluid plasma of hydrogen and helium. Very little iron there, percentage-wise, and none of it in solid form anyway. The sun has no hard surface that you could bore through, even if you were a very boring sort of person, itching to do some boring whenever you get the opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/19 "2008-12-19T22:08:36Z")
Well, I better hop into my DeLorean and get Baktun the Future. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/20 "2008-12-19T22:13:20Z")
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