# The Straight Dope on the Mayan Calendar **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951 "2008-12-19T18:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/121 "2009-01-02T19:09:03Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > If you don’t understand the gist of what I stated in my response than you obviously aren’t qualified to discuss these subjects. Don’t waste our time. A fundamental understanding about quantum nature is mandatory. I suggest you reach for a good text like “Atomic and Molecular Structure: the Development of Our Concepts”, by Walter J. Lehmann (1972). You need some basic academic upgrading. Heh. That’s rich, considering that you don’t even seem to be able to substantiate your basic concepts. What makes the sun burn? Does fusion occur or not? If it doesn’t, where are all those solar neutrinos coming from? If its photosphere is comprised mainly of neon, why does it only have trace amounts of neon in its emission spectrum? How can calcium ferrite be solid at the temperatures on the sun’s surface? If the sun is made of iron, how come its density is far lower than that of iron? Is it just a hollow shell? If so, how’s that supposed to have formed? I mean, I just feel like you should be able to answer at least a couple of those questions if your understanding of ‘quantum nature’ is that much more advanced to mine; otherwise, how am I supposed to tell whether or not you’re not just regurgitating Star Trek technobabble? Because, from my position of ignorance, the two seem nigh indistinguishable. If you want to win some acceptance for your theories, you’ll have to do some substantiation – you can’t just say ‘gravity is caused by tiny invisible dwarves pushing down on you; proof of this is left to the reader’ and expect people to take you seriously. At least throw some quotes from your favourite website around! I’ve got other things to do (academic upgrading, you know), I can’t really wade through all that glurge that – again, to me in my position of ignorance – does seem an awful lot like someone seeing things in sunspots and then going a bit funny in the head. By the way, much of his arguments, as far as I was able to follow, of course, seem to be derived from sunspot observations, and he in fact talks about seeing ‘the dark surface of the sun’ through a sunspot on the ‘sunquakes’ page – however, sunspots are anything but dark, and in fact have a greater apparent magnitude than the full moon, plus a temperature of some 4500K. Care to explain that little discrepancy? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/122 "2009-01-02T19:18:34Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > The site at [http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/](http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/) explains all. It doesn’t explain anything, because it’s complete and total bullshit that wasn’t worth the painful fifteen minutes of examination I just gave it. ---
**Author:** ![baudrunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e56c9b/32.png) [@baudrunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baudrunner)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/123 "2009-01-02T20:44:36Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > It doesn’t explain anything, because it’s complete and total bullshit that wasn’t worth the painful fifteen minutes of examination I just gave it. There were probably too many words for your limited attention span. I read everything but needed a good two hours to do that. Too much technical detail tends to derail some, but not me. I understood it. ---
**Author:** ![baudrunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e56c9b/32.png) [@baudrunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baudrunner)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/124 "2009-01-02T20:47:53Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Heh. That’s rich, considering that you don’t even seem to be able to substantiate your basic concepts. > What makes the sun burn? Does fusion occur or not? If it doesn’t, where are all those solar neutrinos coming from? If its photosphere is comprised mainly of neon, why does it only have trace amounts of neon in its emission spectrum? How can calcium ferrite be solid at the temperatures on the sun’s surface? If the sun is made of iron, how come its density is far lower than that of iron? Is it just a hollow shell? If so, how’s that supposed to have formed? > > I mean, I just feel like you should be able to answer at least a couple of those questions if your understanding of ‘quantum nature’ is that much more advanced to mine; otherwise, how am I supposed to tell whether or not you’re not just regurgitating Star Trek technobabble? Because, from my position of ignorance, the two seem nigh indistinguishable. > > If you want to win some acceptance for your theories, you’ll have to do some substantiation – you can’t just say ‘gravity is caused by tiny invisible dwarves pushing down on you; proof of this is left to the reader’ and expect people to take you seriously. At least throw some quotes from your favourite website around! I’ve got other things to do (academic upgrading, you know), I can’t really wade through all that glurge that – again, to me in my position of ignorance – does seem an awful lot like someone seeing things in sunspots and then going a bit funny in the head. > By the way, much of his arguments, as far as I was able to follow, of course, seem to be derived from sunspot observations, and he in fact talks about seeing ‘the dark surface of the sun’ through a sunspot on the ‘sunquakes’ page – however, sunspots are anything but dark, and in fact have a greater apparent magnitude than the full moon, plus a temperature of some 4500K. Care to explain that little discrepancy? It’s much simpler, and easier on the feeble mind, to be the skeptic and simply nay-say things and ask cynical questions that can very easily be answered much better to your satisfaction just by doing the research. There has been _so_ much progress in our study of the sun over the last ten years that it supersedes all the knowledge that went before it, rendering it obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/125 "2009-01-02T21:10:36Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > It’s much simpler, and easier on the feeble mind, to be the skeptic and simply nay-say things and ask cynical questions that can very easily be answered much better to your satisfaction just by doing the research. There has been _so_ much progress in our study of the sun over the last ten years that it supersedes all the knowledge that went before it, rendering it obsolete. It’s not _our_ job to do the research. It’s _your_ job to go find it and bring it to us. If it takes 2 hours to read, then you need to trim it down and present it here. You need to specifically point to the parts that you find compelling and state what this has to do with the Mayan calendar. It’s not our job to infer your proof. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/126 "2009-01-02T21:42:24Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > There were probably too many words for your limited attention span. Yes, that must be it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/127 "2009-01-02T22:04:30Z")
Yes that must be … ooo look, a bird! What were we talking about again? For those of us with less attention for bizzare, the [photosphere](http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/feature1.shtml) and [helioseismology.](http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/feature1.shtml) Funny. **baud** ’s website attempts to argue that the surface of the sun (underneath its liquid neon photosphere) is solid iron and cites a Dr Manuel for support - but following that link Dr Manuel claims that the [core](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/07/23/sun.iron/index.html) is iron, not the surface (“an iron-rich interior”). And of course that is in itself disproven by, what? Oh yes helioseismology! > [@](#): > > “We measure the composition of the sun’s interior using helioseismology, the study of solar oscillations produced by sonic noise within the sun. We find 90 percent hydrogen and 8 percent helium.” ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/128 "2009-01-02T22:13:26Z")
If your understanding of solar physics is so great, then it should be easy for you to dumb it down for us educated-stupid simpletons. The theory of stellar fusion is pretty complicated, but it goes something like this: immense pressure at the center of the sun makes hydrogen atoms attach to each other, forming helium. This configuration is a lower energy state than two separate hydrogen atoms, so the leftover energy is released as a photon. Do this trillions and trillions of times, and you have a star. According to you, this is all actually wrong. I read through the website but all he did was repeat how correct his theory was and then link to tangentially related papers as if that explained why. If you know it so well, then you should be able to explain it in a short paragraph just like I did. There’s a famous anecdote where Richard Feynman was asked to explain the principles of quantum field theory at the level of a kindergartner. He was confident that he could do it, but after some thought, he realized that he couldn’t. He thus concluded that we don’t understand quantum mechanics as well as we’d like to believe. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/129 "2009-01-03T00:43:04Z")
> [@terrifel](#): > > pure nonsense. A christ-antichrist reaction, obviously, annihilates only liturgical mass. The energy yield varies considerably depending upon whether the initial reaction mass is tridentine, novus ordo, anglican or lutheran; however, physicists agree that the total yield can never exceed the mass of pope paul vi (71.8 kg). awesome!!! ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/130 "2009-01-03T01:02:38Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > It’s much simpler, and easier on the feeble mind, to be the skeptic and simply nay-say things and ask cynical questions that can very easily be answered much better to your satisfaction just by doing the research. There has been _so_ much progress in our study of the sun over the last ten years that it supersedes all the knowledge that went before it, rendering it obsolete. Well, there’s not much possibility for debate if all you’re gonna do is just to tell me to read the link, is there? Anyway, searching the site for ‘neutrinos’ revealed exactly three hits, all in at best weakly related papers that espouse theories completely different from that of the website’s creator, so in the face of the failure of that approach, and with your apparent inability to answer even the most obvious and basic questions, I guess I’ll just go ahead and feel justified in sticking to my feeble-minded scepticism. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/131 "2009-01-03T03:36:06Z")
**baudrunner** , dial it back. While it seems to be par for the course that someone with a new, brilliant theory that trumps all that has come before it will arrive on the SDMB wearing their hubris on their shirtsleeve and trying to be condescending to _hoi polloi_ who have failed to notice the brilliance of their prose, we still ask that everyone maintain a degree of civility. If you cannot post without insulting everyone else in the thread, then you need to reserve your posts for [The BBQ Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=5) and not clutter Great Debates with your acrimony. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/132 "2009-01-03T05:16:00Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > …and trying to be condescending to _hoi polloi_… It’s THE hoi-polloi, dammit! That is Standard American-English Usage and, as far as I can tell since I don’t speak Ancient Greek, it’s correct. Anyway, if you don’t want to be condescending to the hoi-polloi, you gotta include the “the” so we understand you. **baudrunner** , I would like to welcome you to the SDMB. However, this is the sort of discussion you open yourself up to if you limit your participation to your speciality–we will not only take you on toe-to-toe but will find the time to argue linguistics at the same time. Broaden your horizons and you will be happier. I mean, there are still people here who insist the _LOTR_ is GOOD LITERATURE, fercryinoutloud. WORLDS of opportunity! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/133 "2009-01-03T05:23:46Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > It’s THE hoi-polloi, dammit! That is Standard American-English Usage and, as far as I can tell since I don’t speak Ancient Greek, it’s correct. I don’t speak Standard American-English and I do speak a bit of Koine Greek. My statement stands. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/134 "2009-01-03T05:30:09Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I mean, there are still people here who insist the _LOTR_ is GOOD LITERATURE, fercryinoutloud. WORLDS of opportunity! Choose your second, sir! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/135 "2009-01-03T05:30:36Z")
Feh! Elitist! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/136 "2009-01-03T05:34:02Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Choose your second, sir! **baudrunner** , here you can see why you needn’t recreate the laws of physics to find a good, solid, satisfying fight here. Just stroll around, mouth off now and then, and the fights will come to you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/137 "2009-01-03T16:02:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I don’t speak Standard American-English and I do speak a bit of Koine Greek. > > My statement stands. And I assume the correct plural of octopus is octopodes? ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/138 "2009-01-04T05:29:51Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > The site at [http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/](http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/) explains all. There is a lot of reading there, which I have done, but which the majority of you are unlikely to do, that’s just the way it is. Blame it on your educational system which serves primarily as a glorified baby-sitting service and promotes image over knowledge as the route to success. Still, if you really want to know more, read it. It is more convincing to give reference than explain it in my own words. I am astonished at your ability to discern what educational systems posters here learned under. Either you are brilliant, or you are making assumptions that may or may not be founded. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/139 "2009-01-05T12:25:45Z")
> [@baudrunner](#): > > Here’s the straight dope on the Mayan Calendar and what exactly will happen on December 12, 2012. > > Like it or not, we will all fry when the sun goes into partial collapse and ultimately explodes in a burst of energy we call a nova. A sequence of events begins on December 12, 2012, with the delivery of a giant antimatter pellet which bores its way through the iron mantel of the sun. One half of Toutatis is currently made up of this antimatter pellet, which has been in continuous production for about 5 thousand years. Its orbit around the sun takes it very close to Earth in a regular cycle of four years, ending in 2012, when the descendents of the original Toutarians evacuate from here in preparation for an interstellar passage. > > The asteroid Toutatis is not really an asteroid. It arrived here on the bow wave of a stellar explosion, which propagates much faster than light speed. Toutatis is inhabited by a race of peoples who are descended from the fallen angels led by Lucifer, who tired of life in the spiritual realm and who collectively chose the flesh over the spirit. In an epic cosmic conflict, God, who for all intents and purposes rules our observable Universe, relented, and granted Lucifer and his followers their wish, with the pre-condition that once they became of the flesh, they could never evolve spiritual identities, and when they died, that was it - from dust and unto dust etc., unlike you or I (provided you’re not one of them), who are a natural product of this anthropocentric Universe and whose evolution is continuous, both in our physical and in our spiritual selves. The conditions were accepted, and they were banished from God’s domain and planted on some arbitrary world. This happened eons ago. I guess life in heaven isn’t all it’s cut out to be. > > The fallen angels have great knowledge of the workings of the cosmic realm, and have been using that knowledge to advance their cause, which is to maximize their fleshly experience throughout the Universe one world at a time, subjugating populations and enjoying autocratic and absolute dominion. Their duration of stay on any particular world averages about 5 thousand years, after which the indigenous populations will have evolved to the stage where they become superior to their former masters in all respects and the time has come for the descendents of the fallen angels to travel to the next world to lord it over the primitive intelligences evolving there. That next world is about 2000 parsecs away, give or take, and they will arrive there within a few weeks of our sun going nova. > > Do you doubt the concept of superluminosity? Look at the centre of any super nova, like the crab nebula, for example. You’ll see the original star, still shining as it was before it exploded, because the light from that star is still travelling at normal light speed, and yet the explosion was observed in broad daylight by Chinese and Arab astronomers in 1054. Shock waves travel much faster than light. The original bow wave of that nova arrived here thousands of years ago. Paolo Maffei, the noted Italian astronomer, theorizes that if a neighboring galaxy were to explode, we would experience the initial shock wave in about two weeks. > > Can we do something about it? Yup, but it will require a major investment in technology and resources, to blow up the soft underbelly of Toutatis with a nuclear warhead on a huge bunker-buster, riding the fastest rocket ever launched from Earth. Time is of the essence. Otherwise, I’ll see you in .. wherever. > > Have a nice day. So what you’re saying is… \ \*When I think of the future, well, you really have to laugh; An asteroid is coming with an antimatter half. It’s ridden by some angels who will wave as they pass by And if we don’t destroy it then we’re surely going to fry! Oh, superluminosity annihilation closes! As set out in Mayan wisdom passed on by osmosis! Doom is coming - it’s as plain as all your faces’ noses! Superluminosity annihilation closes! Hum-diddle-iddle-iddle hum-diddle-aye Hum-diddle-iddle-iddle hum-diddle-aye…\* ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951/140 "2009-01-05T13:27:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So what you’re saying is… > > \ > > \*When I think of the future, well, you really have to laugh; > An asteroid is coming with an antimatter half. > It’s ridden by some angels who will wave as they pass by > And if we don’t destroy it then we’re surely going to fry! > > Oh, superluminosity annihilation closes! > As set out in Mayan wisdom passed on by osmosis! > Doom is coming - it’s as plain as all your faces’ noses! > Superluminosity annihilation closes! > > Hum-diddle-iddle-iddle hum-diddle-aye > Hum-diddle-iddle-iddle hum-diddle-aye…\* Someone needs to applaud this . . . Oh, ok, I will. ::clap clap:: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-straight-dope-on-the-mayan-calendar/477951.md?page=8)