# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/241 "2013-09-25T00:51:08Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > You don’t know what your talking about. The very term " Christian", has NEVER been endorsed by Jesus or God, and it only appears in the bible, ( some bibles), twice. The original followers of Christ called themselves " The Way:", but the Romans first coined the term Christian, and the followers of Christ just adopted that later. Know your history. I believe in Jesus and that he is the Son of God, that in no manner MAKES me some Christian, you have been deceived into believing that it does. > > Even Jesus told his own followers, " Other Sheep I have that are not of this fold", meaning he has people who believe in him who are not Jews or of a certain sect. Believing that Christ is the son of a deity is the first step in being a christian. I attended private Catholic schools from nursery school through high school (and I did very well), traveled many places, lived in many places and I don’t think I’m being deceived by anyone. I wasn’t talking about the bible. I was talking about history, like you claim you were. Even if I were talking about the bible, the many letters from Paul and Peter (father of christianity) may disagree with you on that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/242 "2013-09-25T01:10:43Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Hey, I was going to give more list a lot longer , but after being question by the Mods, I sensed I need to back down some because I sense some may be offended here by those list of evidence. Are you in complete agreement with what is espoused on [tentmaker.org](http://tentmaker.org), or do you disagree with some of it? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/243 "2013-09-25T01:43:45Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Hey, I was going to give more list a lot longer , but after being question by the Mods, I sensed I need to back down some because I sense some may be offended here by those list of evidence. It’s the irrelevance that may be an issue. You could print a list of known Christians as long as the NYC phone book, and it wouldn’t matter a damn. I could regurgitate a long list of atheist writers – and Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, classical Pagan and neo-Pagan writers: would that impress you? It shouldn’t. Going back, however: you listed a number of books that referenced the existence of Jesus. But several of those only quoted from other books, and didn’t have any original or primary references to Jesus. I asked you to cut the list down to those that actually served as evidence for Jesus’ existence. You shot back some other list entirely, and, here, you say that you’d have given more of that. But that has no relevance to what you originally said and what I questioned. Being non-responsive in a debate is a crummy way to conduct a discussion. If you make a claim, and someone questions it, it’s really sloppy to ignore the question and post some new, unrelated claim. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/244 "2013-09-25T03:20:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s the irrelevance that may be an issue. You could print a list of known Christians as long as the NYC phone book, and it wouldn’t matter a damn. I could regurgitate a long list of atheist writers – and Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, classical Pagan and neo-Pagan writers: would that impress you? It shouldn’t. > > Going back, however: you listed a number of books that referenced the existence of Jesus. But several of those only quoted from other books, and didn’t have any original or primary references to Jesus. I asked you to cut the list down to those that actually served as evidence for Jesus’ existence. You shot back some other list entirely, and, here, you say that you’d have given more of that. But that has no relevance to what you originally said and what I questioned. > > Being non-responsive in a debate is a crummy way to conduct a discussion. If you make a claim, and someone questions it, it’s really sloppy to ignore the question and post some new, unrelated claim. I think your debate is unattentive, I have not given a list of books in this thread, you don’t know what your talking about. Show me where I gave a list of books; and when you fail in doing that, ask yourself how someone who is not even paying attention to a debate, can call anothers style of debate crummy. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/245 "2013-09-25T03:22:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you in complete agreement with what is espoused on [tentmaker.org](http://tentmaker.org), or do you disagree with some of it? I have never met anybody or know of any human that I completely agree with. Nor any group. I do not agree with everything on Tentmaker, I was in fact banned from there years ago. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/246 "2013-09-25T03:25:38Z")
I sincerely owe the OP - **Mickiel** - an apology - I stated earlier in this thread - [QUOTE=simster] Share away - but don’t expect us to just go “oh wow - never heard that one before”. [/QUOTE] Because -well - you got me. I honestly think this is the first time I have encountered someone that believes in God and Jesus (as his son), the sacrifice and the afterlife - and yet so adamantly refuses to be called a ‘Christian’ . In most peoples view - even those that are as adamantly against organized religion as you are - still claim to be ‘Christian’ based on the simple belief of God/Son/Sacrifice and the desire to be ‘Christ like’ in actions and deeds. (aka - the 'philosophy of Christianity, not the ‘religion’ of same). And that is why there is that contention here - you have repeatedly stated that you believe in the principal tenet and idea. Most would do the opposite - “I am a Christian, all those others are not” So, while I still firmly believe you have a lot of misguided facts regarding ‘those Christians’, and many of your ideas and proofs could use some more research by you, as you do seem to paint with extremely wide brush strokes - you have at least broken the mold. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/247 "2013-09-25T03:27:26Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > Believing that Christ is the son of a deity is the first step in being a christian. I attended private Catholic schools from nursery school through high school (and I did very well), traveled many places, lived in many places and I don’t think I’m being deceived by anyone. I wasn’t talking about the bible. I was talking about history, like you claim you were. Even if I were talking about the bible, the many letters from Paul and Peter (father of christianity) may disagree with you on that. 😉 Your just one of those people who think that Christians hold a monopoly on belief in God. You like putting people in your catagorys and placing your labels on them; you cannot handle the truth that I am not Christian, so your mind cannot see what I am. Only what comforts your understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/248 "2013-09-25T03:29:43Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I sincerely owe the OP - **Mickiel** - an apology - > > I stated earlier in this thread - > > Because -well - you got me. > > I honestly think this is the first time I have encountered someone that believes in God and Jesus (as his son), the sacrifice and the afterlife - and yet so adamantly refuses to be called a ‘Christian’ . > > In most peoples view - even those that are as adamantly against organized religion as you are - still claim to be ‘Christian’ based on the simple belief of God/Son/Sacrifice and the desire to be ‘Christ like’ in actions and deeds. (aka - the 'philosophy of Christianity, not the ‘religion’ of same). And that is why there is that contention here - you have repeatedly stated that you believe in the principal tenet and idea. > > Most would do the opposite - “I am a Christian, all those others are not” > > So, while I still firmly believe you have a lot of misguided facts regarding ‘those Christians’, and many of your ideas and proofs could use some more research by you, as you do seem to paint with extremely wide brush strokes - you have at least broken the mold. I accept your apoligy. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/249 "2013-09-25T03:29:52Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Which Christian(s) say this? Got a cite or reference for this ‘fact’ ? > [@Mickiel](#): > > You have to be in their congregations and hear their sermons to know this fact. But…but… If you’re not a Christian, how does it come to pass that you find yourself in their congregations and listening to their sermons enough to know this “fact” yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/250 "2013-09-25T03:32:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > But…but… > > If you’re not a Christian, how does it come to pass that you find yourself in their congregations and listening to their sermons enough to know this “fact” yourself? I was a Christian for 37 years, I think thats long enough to know the wisdom of something; wisdom is knowing how it is. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/251 "2013-09-25T03:35:13Z")
> [@simster](#): > > WHere did I ‘mock’ you? If you feel you were personally attacked, report the post and let the mods handle it. otherwise - being called on your ‘facts’ and ‘posts’ in a debate forum is not mocking you. Well, I _kinda_ mocked him, in this post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16692108&postcount=46), but it doesn’t appear that he even took much notice of it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/252 "2013-09-25T03:38:36Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > There is no doubt to those informed that the bible is a valid historical document, it has far too much confirmed archaeology on its side. No, actually, there is absolutely no extrabiblical historical or archaeological evidence for the Exodus, and there is even reasonable doubt as to whether David and Solomon’s united Kingdom of Israel-Judah ever existed. See [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed). As for the New Testament, see [here](http://www.amazon.com/Zealot-Life-Times-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/140006922X). ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/253 "2013-09-25T03:40:28Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, I _kinda_ mocked him, in this post [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16692108&postcount=46), but it doesn’t appear that he even took much notice of it. Oh I noticed it; and your not the only one who has done it. But I simply ignored it, and I thought for a second that even just ignoring insults got me in trouble with a Moderator here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/254 "2013-09-25T03:41:47Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Why are you asking someone who you think is making no sense questions, that makes no sense. The bible is historical, and so was Jesus, as these historical writers confirmed; > > Tertullian > > Josephus Actually, no. [Not Josephus.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus) ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/255 "2013-09-25T03:47:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, actually, there is absolutely no extrabiblical historical or archaeological evidence for the Exodus, and there is even reasonable doubt as to whether David and Solomon’s united Kingdom of Israel-Judah ever existed. See [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed). As for the New Testament, see [here](http://www.amazon.com/Zealot-Life-Times-Jesus-Nazareth/dp/140006922X). There’s none for the Exodus, but I already listed 7 confirmed historical Archaeological finds, 6 from the book of second Kings, in this thread. Kindly look at them and give me a credible refute of those. And explain to me why you have ignored the discovery of King Solomons Copper mines? Also please explain to me why you are calling the discovery of Herod the Greats Tomb, no evidence? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/256 "2013-09-25T03:49:38Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > In another example, most Christians believe that the bible was written by them and only for them, but they cannot include that in their doctrines because they hold no copy rights on the bible. _You all know the Bible Is made of Testaments old and new You’ve been told it’s just those two parts (Or only one, if you’re a Jew). But What if I were to tell you There’s a fresh third part out there, That was found by a hip new prophet Who had a little – 🆒 Donny Osmond 🆒 flair!_ ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/257 "2013-09-25T03:50:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, no. [Not Josephus.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus) I disagree with that, but that’s fine, you got 32 more on that list, lets have their evaluation. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/258 "2013-09-25T03:56:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Say what? How did you come to attend _hundreds_ of different Baptist churches? Ya think maybe they ALL kicked him out? Naaaahhh. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/259 "2013-09-25T04:01:12Z")
It ain’t necessarily so It ain’t necessarily so Dem tings dat you liable To read in de Bible Dey ain’t necessarily so Methuselah lived 900 years Methuselah lived 900 years But why call dat livin’ When no gal will give in To no man what’s 900 years?! – [_Porgy and Bess_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porgy_and_Bess) ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/260 "2013-09-25T04:02:56Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ya think maybe they ALL kicked him out? > > Naaaahhh. It is my destiny to be kicked out of places. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=14)