# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/341 "2013-09-25T18:02:53Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Hell is the eternal torment of trying to carry on a rational discussion with **Mickiel** Knock it off. This is not The BBQ Pit and we have enough hostility in this thread, already. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/342 "2013-09-25T18:05:01Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Knock it off. This is not The BBQ Pit and we have enough hostility in this thread, already. > > [/Moderating] Its quite alright, it does not bother me. I understand the reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/343 "2013-09-25T18:08:26Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, here is the crux of the problem. Everyone you have cited is connected with the Moody Bible Institute or similar organizations. None of them are “modern” scholars. The Moody Bible Institute was founded for the express purpose of denying all the archaeological, linguistic, and historical information that began to turn up in the late 19th century, continuing to today. Since their chief objective is to simply deny that the bible is anything other than literally true, they spend all their efforts trying to discount actual analysis. > > For. I don’t agree with their views on Archaeology, IF what you say is true. But I agree with their research on who wrote the bible and when. With biblical archaeology I tend to like [biblearchaeology.org](http://biblearchaeology.org). Among others. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/344 "2013-09-25T18:28:09Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > That is the computer I have, and it does not copy and paste; if it does, I am unaware of it. What you just did that allows others to look at that web page by Wow, I cannot do. NO computer does copy and paste. It’s up to the software to do so. Try this, for shits and giggles. Open your word processor program and create a new page. Type some text. Select some or all of the text with your cursor (you do know how to select, don’t you?), and press Control-C (that means hold the Control key down while briefly pressing the letter “C” once, then releasing both). You have just copied the text to a secret and invisible place called, in Windows language, the “clipboard.” Next, place your cursor in a blank spot, click to “anchor” it, and press Control-V (same kind of motions). The text that you copied should magically appear. If all this works in your word processor, try it while composing an email, or composing a post. I’ll bet it works just as well there. Finally, if you wish to transfer the URL of a web site, copy the URL from your browser, then paste it to your post using the same procedure. The board software will automatically detect it as a link, and you’re done with Lesson One! Coming up: Lesson Two ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/345 "2013-09-25T18:33:45Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > If Hell was real and a place of endless suffering, could you even send a dog there? Why would a religion, which should hold inspiration and hope for a people, have such a strange doctrine? Well, at least you’re back at the putative thread topic. TBH, I don’t think you’re going to find many Dopers lining up to defend the notion that eternal hell suffering is something that exists in real lif – excuse me, in real _afterlife_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/346 "2013-09-25T18:37:57Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Knock it off. This is not The BBQ Pit and we have enough hostility in this thread, already. > > [/Moderating] > [@Mickiel](#): > > Its quite alright, it does not bother me. I understand the reaction. I hope I’m not stepping into Junior-modding territory by pointing out that he didn’t issue that Mod-note for _you_; he issued it on behalf of, and to further the ends of, the Message Board. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/347 "2013-09-25T18:49:54Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > NO computer does copy and paste. It’s up to the software to do so. > > Try this, for shits and giggles. Open your word processor program and create a new page. Type some text. Select some or all of the text with your cursor (you do know how to select, don’t you?), and press Control-C (that means hold the Control key down while briefly pressing the letter “C” once, then releasing both). You have just copied the text to a secret and invisible place called, in Windows language, the “clipboard.” > > Next, place your cursor in a blank spot, click to “anchor” it, and press Control-V (same kind of motions). The text that you copied should magically appear. > > If all this works in your word processor, try it while composing an email, or composing a post. I’ll bet it works just as well there. > > Finally, if you wish to transfer the URL of a web site, copy the URL from your browser, then paste it to your post using the same procedure. The board software will automatically detect it as a link, and you’re done with Lesson One! > > Coming up: Lesson Two You don’t understand, this computer has no copy paste feature in either top corner, there is absolutely no features on it to allow you to copy or paste. It has many other features, just not that. I can type and save, then upload what I have, like a resume, but it has no features to copy and paste. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/348 "2013-09-25T18:50:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I hope I’m not stepping into Junior-modding territory by pointing out that he didn’t issue that Mod-note for _you_; he issued it on behalf of, and to further the ends of, the Message Board. I am curious, what makes you think I did not understand that? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/349 "2013-09-25T18:54:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, at least you’re back at the putative thread topic. > > TBH, I don’t think you’re going to find many Dopers lining up to defend the notion that eternal hell suffering is something that exists in real lif – excuse me, in real _afterlife_. Well I agree, but I did not know the character of this site , there does not seem to be a lot of Christians here, seems to be majority Atheist; not quite sure. I catch a lot of flack from both groups anyway. But I like the way everything here is challanged, that will keep people from posting things with no credibility. And it tends to keep a poster on his toes. Very challanging. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/350 "2013-09-25T19:04:49Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > NO computer does copy and paste. It’s up to the software to do so. > > Try this, for shits and giggles. Open your word processor program and create a new page. Type some text. Select some or all of the text with your cursor (you do know how to select, don’t you?), and press Control-C (that means hold the Control key down while briefly pressing the letter “C” once, then releasing both). You have just copied the text to a secret and invisible place called, in Windows language, the “clipboard.” > > Next, place your cursor in a blank spot, click to “anchor” it, and press Control-V (same kind of motions). The text that you copied should magically appear. > > If all this works in your word processor, try it while composing an email, or composing a post. I’ll bet it works just as well there. > > Finally, if you wish to transfer the URL of a web site, copy the URL from your browser, then paste it to your post using the same procedure. The board software will automatically detect it as a link, and you’re done with Lesson One! > > Coming up: Lesson Two I want to thank you, I just tried this, and to my surprise it worked! It really worked! I typed a line, moused over it, hit contrl C, then placed the mouse at the bottom, hit contrl V and out the line popped. Thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/351 "2013-09-25T19:05:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Knock it off. This is not The BBQ Pit and we have enough hostility in this thread, already. > > [/Moderating] > [@Mickiel](#): > > **Its quite alright, it does not bother me. I understand the reaction.** > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I hope I’m not stepping into Junior-modding territory by pointing out that he didn’t issue that Mod-note for _you_; he issued it on behalf of, and to further the ends of, the Message Board. > [@Mickiel](#): > > I am curious, what makes you think I did not understand that? I inferred it from the post where you implied that his doing it had been unnecessary (That would be the one I made all RED and **bold** and everything) ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/352 "2013-09-25T19:07:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I inferred it from the post where you implied that his doing it had been unnecessary (That would be the one I made all RED and **bold** and everything) I see, no problem. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/353 "2013-09-25T19:08:56Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > You don’t understand, this computer has no copy paste feature in either top corner, there is absolutely no features on it to allow you to copy or paste. It has many other features, just not that. I can type and save, then upload what I have, like a resume, but it has no features to copy and paste. Have you tried what I outlined? Have you followed my instructions? I don’t care what you think it does or does not do. _I have no copy paste feature on my left corner, either._ That doesn’t mean it won’t work. Try it! ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/354 "2013-09-25T19:30:05Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I want to thank you, I just tried this, and to my surprise it worked! It really worked! I typed a line, moused over it, hit contrl C, then placed the mouse at the bottom, hit contrl V and out the line popped. > > Thank you very much. You’re quite welcome. I just verified it with the WOW techies, who told me that Linux is the WOW OP, and most universal commands such as Control-C, Control-X (cut) and Control-V work just fine. Their number in the US is 800 391-9320, although they’ll nag you to purchase VIP support while they play Frank Sinatra music. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/355 "2013-09-25T19:55:27Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > You’re quite welcome. I just verified it with the WOW techies, who told me that Linux is the WOW OP, and most universal commands such as Control-C, Control-X (cut) and Control-V work just fine. Their number in the US is 800 391-9320, although they’ll nag you to purchase VIP support while they play Frank Sinatra music. Thanks again, and thanks for the number..🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/356 "2013-09-25T19:59:18Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I want to thank you, I just tried this, and to my surprise it worked! It really worked! I typed a line, moused over it, hit contrl C, then placed the mouse at the bottom, hit contrl V and out the line popped. > > Thank you very much. You really could use a regular computer also. Don’t blame your age - I’m 3 years older than you are and I’m a professional computer scientist, still hacking away. My father-in-law is 97 and still computer active - I taught him how to program in BASIC when he was 60. So don’t be afraid of this stuff, though the people who will try to sell you stuff will make it seem very hard. I see from a WOW web page that they don’t allow new programs, probably to reduce their support costs. But you can figure out what they provide. On your browser go to Help on the top menu then About. That will give you details. Open Office and Firefox both run under Linux (I use Solaris another type of UNIX at work) so I’m betting your stuff is variants of these. Lots of us can answer any questions you have. Now we have that out of the way, you should go to your library, go to the astronomy section, and look for a fairly simple book on the Big Bang. That should get you started. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/357 "2013-09-25T20:13:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You really could use a regular computer also. Don’t blame your age - I’m 3 years older than you are and I’m a professional computer scientist, still hacking away. My father-in-law is 97 and still computer active - I taught him how to program in BASIC when he was 60. So don’t be afraid of this stuff, though the people who will try to sell you stuff will make it seem very hard. > I see from a WOW web page that they don’t allow new programs, probably to reduce their support costs. But you can figure out what they provide. On your browser go to Help on the top menu then About. That will give you details. Open Office and Firefox both run under Linux (I use Solaris another type of UNIX at work) so I’m betting your stuff is variants of these. > > Lots of us can answer any questions you have. > > Now we have that out of the way, you should go to your library, go to the astronomy section, and look for a fairly simple book on the Big Bang. That should get you started. Well its a long story, but to make it short, My computer crashed in January, my Mom died in Feburary before I could buy another, so I ended up with hers, so its got sentimental value. I just never had one like hers before. She was 79. But I think I keep it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/358 "2013-09-25T20:16:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > “Disingenuity?” > > I thought the preferred noun form was “disingenuousness.” I looked it up on Merriam-Webster online before I used it. You may very well be right; I only checked for spelling, not meaning. (Is it like “luminosity” v. “luminousness?”) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/359 "2013-09-25T20:18:15Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Well, to be fair - in his first list of writers he included ‘The Talumud’ and ‘The Toledot Yeshu’ - which are books Nah, to be scrupulously fair, I blundered. I read his post in haste, and misperceived. On the other hand, the Talmud? He cited the Talmud as a confirmation of the historical Jesus? Is Jesus mentioned anywhere in the Talmud? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/360 "2013-09-25T20:20:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I will not " Pare down" the list, you need to give your list of the writers that only quoted other writers, and lets see if its " Many" like you claim it to be; and we will see whose list is respectful debate. Okay; to begin with, the Talmud and Tertullian. Tertullian had no primary knowledge of Jesus’ existence, having been born after Jesus was dead. The Talmud, I believe, was complete and no longer subject to any change, from a time before Jesus was born, and thus could have no knowledge of him. So, here are two entries from your list that were in error. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=19)