# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/361 "2013-09-25T20:25:51Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Lets talk about him, he signed off as the writer of his own book, explain that to me if he did not write it. . . . John H. Watson signed off as the author of A Study in Scarlet. Explain that to me if he did not write it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/362 "2013-09-25T20:33:42Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > . . . while they play Frank Sinatra music. The existence of hell has just been confirmed! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/363 "2013-09-25T20:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager; Now we have that out of the way, you should go to your library, go to the astronomy section, and look for a fairly simple book on the Big Bang. That should get you started.[/QUOTE] I looked at it again, now they seem to be trying to say the beginning of our universe was " A Slow Expansion"; goodness, how this theory has " Evolved." They don’t know how, but something came from a black hole in nothing space, and our Large Universe came from that small hole. Which I still view as nonsense and just another effort to " Explain away God from the equation." Do you know how large our Universe is? We have groups of Quasars so large, it would take 4 billion light years to cross it while traveling at the speed of light! Come on man, that had to be created, such an expanse could not erupt out of a black hole of nothing! Look at Voyager I, its traveling 38,000 miles an hour, its been flying in space for over 30 years, and its just now leaving our solar system. 11.7 billion miles from earth, is not due to reach the next star in its path for 40,000 years! Come on man, its academic, there must be a God, this kind of mass cannot create itself. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/364 "2013-09-25T20:51:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Okay; to begin with, the Talmud and Tertullian. Tertullian had no primary knowledge of Jesus’ existence, having been born after Jesus was dead. The Talmud, I believe, was complete and no longer subject to any change, from a time before Jesus was born, and thus could have no knowledge of him. So, here are two entries from your list that were in error. That depends on what you read, Tertullian did live in 207 AD, but he still was an historical writer who confirmed Jesus existence. Some consider him the Father of Latin Christianity. And the Talmud does make references to Jesus, but its still according to what cite you look at, because some don’t have him being referenced to. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/365 "2013-09-25T21:05:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > We have groups of Quasars so large, it would take 4 billion light years to cross it while traveling at the speed of light! Come on man, that had to be created, such an expanse could not erupt out of a black hole of nothing! I’ll see if I can come up with a response to this after the hydrocodone takes effect. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/366 "2013-09-25T21:07:48Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > That depends on what you read, Tertullian did live in 207 AD, but he still was an historical writer who confirmed Jesus existence. Some consider him the Father of Latin Christianity. And the Talmud does make references to Jesus, but its still according to what cite you look at, because some don’t have him being referenced to. A cite for the Talmud referring to Jesus, please. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/367 "2013-09-25T21:17:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A cite for the Talmud referring to Jesus, please. Look on [Christiancourier.com](http://Christiancourier.com), the Jewish Talmud, and [Solargeneral.com](http://Solargeneral.com), Jesus in the Talmud, and of course you can use google and get a lot more, depending on where you look, they all do not agree. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/368 "2013-09-25T21:18:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ll see if I can come up with a response to this after the hydrocodone takes effect. A cite for the hydrocodone please. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/369 "2013-09-25T21:18:33Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I looked at it again, now they seem to be trying to say the beginning of our universe was " A Slow Expansion"; goodness, how this theory has " Evolved." Yes, that’s science for you. It incorporates new knowledge. It’s more fun than torturing words written thousands of years ago by anonymous authors. > [@](#): > > They don’t know how, but something came from a black hole in nothing space There’s nothing about a black hole in this theory. There’s a singularity, which is sort of related, but not a black hole. > [@](#): > > Which I still view as nonsense Of course you view it as nonsense. You haven’t paid enough attention to even figure out what the theory says, so how can you have any hope of making sense of it? You don’t seem that interested in this stuff in the first place, which is fine. But if you’re not interested, don’t bother with the strawman arguments. > [@](#): > > Come on man, that had to be created, such an expanse could not erupt out of a black hole of nothing! This is another one of those things that’s just supposed to be obvious, I guess. “Only God can make something really big?” “How do you know, **Mickiel**?” “Come on!” What an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/370 "2013-09-25T21:22:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, that’s science for you. It incorporates new knowledge. It’s more fun than torturing words written thousands of years ago by anonymous authors. > > There’s nothing about a black hole in this theory. There’s a singularity, which is sort of related, but not a black hole. > > Of course you view it as nonsense. You haven’t paid enough attention to even figure out what the theory says, so how can you have any hope of making sense of it? You don’t seem that interested in this stuff in the first place, which is fine. But if you’re not interested, don’t bother with the strawman arguments. > > This is another one of those things that’s just supposed to be obvious, I guess. “Only God can make something really big?” “How do you know, **Mickiel**?” “Come on!” > > What an argument. EXCUSE me; if I may be quite simple; explain to me how something the size of our universe come from singularity that is nowhere ever near its size? That’s like trying to say the earth came out of the belly of an ant. Good grief! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/371 "2013-09-25T21:29:16Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Do you know how large our Universe is? We have groups of Quasars so large, it would take 4 billion light years to cross it while traveling at the speed of light! 1. Light-years measure distance, not time. 2. Considering the visible universe has a radius of 46 billion light-years, where can I find a group of quasars that 4 billion light-years wide? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/372 "2013-09-25T21:30:00Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > EXCUSE me; if I may be quite simple; explain to me how something the size of our universe come from singularity that is nowhere ever near its size? That’s like trying to say the earth came out of the belly of an ant. > > Good grief! Singularity is a THEORY, not a fact, its just as much THEORY as the big bang, meaning it has NOT been proven. Its a theoretical moment in time when something less can develop into something greater, like an ant giving birth to the earth. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/373 "2013-09-25T21:31:46Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > EXCUSE me; if I may be quite simple; explain to me how something the size of our universe come from singularity that is nowhere ever near its size? “The universe got bigger.” There, I did it in four words. > [@Mickiel](#): > > Singularity is a THEORY, not a fact, its just as much THEORY as the big bang, meaning it has NOT been proven. That’s not what “theory” means. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/374 "2013-09-25T21:32:07Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Singularity is a THEORY, not a fact, its just as much THEORY as the big bang, meaning it has NOT been proven. Its a theoretical moment in time when something less can develop into something greater, like an ant giving birth to the earth. Do you know what the word “theory” means when used in the scientific community? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/375 "2013-09-25T21:34:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. Light-years measure distance, not time. > 2. Considering the visible universe has a radius of 46 billion light-years, where can I find a group of quasars that 4 billion light-years wide? Heres one, [www.dailygalaxy.com/.../thelargest-structure-universe-discovered-quasa](http://www.dailygalaxy.com/.../thelargest-structure-universe-discovered-quasa)… Its 4 billion light years wide. Largest structure in the universe discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/376 "2013-09-25T21:39:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “The universe got bigger.” There, I did it in four words. > > That’s not what “theory” means. Oh so now you want us to believe it came from a small black hole in nothing, then grew greater than the nothing, and just happened to create an earth than just happens to be suitable for humans, and just happened to create humans to populate this earth and just happened to give them consciousness. Your giving a whole lot of power to theory; in fact, your giving it Gods power. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/377 "2013-09-25T21:40:50Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Oh so now you want us to believe it came from a small black hole In one-syllable words now: no black hole. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/378 "2013-09-25T21:41:06Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Heres one, [www.dailygalaxy.com/.../thelargest-structure-universe-discovered-quasa](http://www.dailygalaxy.com/.../thelargest-structure-universe-discovered-quasa)… > > Its 4 billion light years wide. > > Largest structure in the universe discovered. The link doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/379 "2013-09-25T21:47:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The Talmud, I believe, was complete and no longer subject to any change, from a time before Jesus was born, and thus could have no knowledge of him. The Talmud developed from written discussions and arguments in what had been the Pharasaic tradition after the destruction of Jerusalem. The original discussions were somewhat haphazard regarding organization, but around 200, a more formalized editing of the arguments according to topical subjects was created. The discussions continued for several hundred years, expanding away from merely discussions of the Tanakh about 300 years after the organization by subject. There are discussions of someone, usually interpreted as Jesus and his immediate followers, in the Talmud. However, such discussions revolve around the errors of his teachings (in respect to post-Temple Judaism) and cannot be considered historical references to the actual person. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/380 "2013-09-25T21:49:55Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Did you forget the tombs of Ramses the 2d and he and all his children buried there? So The Scripture that stated that all the Pharoah’s army and that the Pharoah drowned could not have been true… Well, it doesn’t **name** the Pharoah. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=20)