# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/441 "2013-09-26T16:04:19Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I see no reason for you to insult me; explain to me how you know what the things are that I don’t know? I didn’t insult you. I stated - factually - that you don’t know anything about evolution or the Big Bang. You’ve posted basic errors about both of them several times, and I already pointed that out to you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/442 "2013-09-26T16:04:48Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Spare me your futile attempts to impress false things on things I never said; I never said I conceive a unicorn as being real; I said Atheist NEED myths to help support their unbelief in what they think is a myth. You think God is a myth, but God in NO manner of reason can be compared to any myth, because God is historically legit, emotionally legit, scientifically legit, morally legit, legally legit, ( courts don’t use a unicorn to swear people in, they use a bible), and reasonably legit. I quoted _you_. Now either back up your claim or back off from it. I never said that you believed in unicorns-I was using unicorns to point out the major flaw in your thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/443 "2013-09-26T16:08:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A cite is not just a random link-it must support the claim being made. If you claim that you are not a Christian and someone asks for a cite for others that believe as you do, than links to Christian websites are wrong. No they are not. I agree with many things that Christians and Atheist believe, but I am not either. Yet I gave an Atheist as part of my proof, Dr. Julian Jyanes, and Christians at Tentmaker and Bible Truths, I agree with some of what they believe. I gave an Archaeology cite, I agree with much of their material, and disagree with much of it. I don’t know what world you live in, but in my world, I have no perfect agreement with anybody. If you want a website or a cite that agrees with me 100%, there is no such creature. I walk alone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/444 "2013-09-26T16:09:02Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I most certainly agree the Unicorn is a mythical creature, because I have no proof of it; but where God is concerned, I have this proof; > > Consciousness > > The Anthropic Principles > > Irreducible Complexity > > Biblical archaeology > > Biogenesis > > The laws of conversation > > Kalam Cosomological argument > > Proteins > > The animal kingdom > > The Universe > > The laws of Gravity > > The fossil record > > Metamorphosis > > DNA > > The second law of Thermodynamics > > Life > > Life spans > > Entrophy > > Purpose > > The first living cells > > Atheist > > Causality > > Chirality > > Historical Writers > > Carbon Dating > > Civilization > > Language > > Emotions > > Females > > Prophecy > > Morals > > No proof that God is not real > > Increasing Complexity > > Evolution > > The law of perpetual transmutation > > The law of mentality > > Now give me your list that supports unicorns being real. Well you can’t, but with God you can. The only thing your list “proves” is that you can make up a list of non sequiturs at the drop of a hat. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/445 "2013-09-26T16:10:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I quoted _you_. Now either back up your claim or back off from it. I never said that you believed in unicorns-I was using unicorns to point out the major flaw in your thinking. I will back off from nothing I have said. Nothing! I stand absolutely by everything I have stated, I am not playing games. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/446 "2013-09-26T16:11:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t insult you. I stated - factually - that you don’t know anything about evolution or the Big Bang. You’ve posted basic errors about both of them several times, and I already pointed that out to you. I am then curious, show me these facts that I don’t know what evolution is; this I got to see. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/447 "2013-09-26T16:12:24Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I will back off from nothing I have said. Nothing! I stand absolutely by everything I have stated, I am not playing games. Then answer the question: If conception and reality cannot be separated, and if you can conceive of a unicorn, then unicorns must be real. Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/448 "2013-09-26T16:21:54Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Now give me your list that supports unicorns being real. Be glad to. Here it is: Consciousness The Anthropic Principles Irreducible Complexity Biblical archaeology Bio genesis The laws of conversation Kalam Cosomological argument Proteins The animal kingdom The Universe The laws of Gravity The fossil record Metamorphosis DNA The second law of Thermodynamics Life Life spans Entropy Purpose The first living cells Atheist Causality Chirality Historical Writers Carbon Dating Civilization Language Emotions Females Prophecy Morals No proof that Unicorns are not real Increasing Complexity Evolution The law of perpetual transmutation The law of mentalityIrrefutable! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/449 "2013-09-26T16:25:13Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I am then curious, show me these facts that I don’t know what evolution is; this I got to see. This description: “Life […] did not crawl out from under a self created rock that somehow eventually created an animal which eventually walked upright and through some miracle luck, developed a thinking brain. We are not continuous with the Idiot hierarchy of speechless apes!” Evolution (or abiogenesis) do not posit that rocks created themselves or that rocks created animals, and there’s a ton of evidence that we do share a common ancestor with apes. So there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/450 "2013-09-26T16:26:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then answer the question: If conception and reality cannot be separated, and if you can conceive of a unicorn, then unicorns must be real. Yes or no? I said the conception of God cannot be seperated from the reality of God, because one leads to the other. God is not a myth, only in your world is that true, and its a minority world; Atheist try to equate God with myths, because you have little else to garner support for your faulty views; I will not accept myths as evidence that God is a myth, that is contradiction, you must use facts to disprove God, not myths. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/451 "2013-09-26T16:29:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This description: “Life […] did not crawl out from under a self created rock that somehow eventually created an animal which eventually walked upright and through some miracle luck, developed a thinking brain. We are not continuous with the Idiot hierarchy of speechless apes!” > > Evolution (or abiogenesis) do not posit that rocks created themselves or that rocks created animals, and there’s a ton of evidence that we do share a common ancestor with apes. So there’s that. So your “concept=reality” claim only works for the god you believe in? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/452 "2013-09-26T16:31:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This description: “Life […] did not crawl out from under a self created rock that somehow eventually created an animal which eventually walked upright and through some miracle luck, developed a thinking brain. We are not continuous with the Idiot hierarchy of speechless apes!” > > Evolution (or abiogenesis) do not posit that rocks created themselves or that rocks created animals, and there’s a ton of evidence that we do share a common ancestor with apes. So there’s that. I did not say that was the " Theory" of evolution, but that IS a theory of evolution, according to who you ask; I believe in evolution, and I consider it an insult that you think you can look into my mind and define what I think about something, and you don’t even know me. That kind of thing may have support here, but I don’t support it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/453 "2013-09-26T16:32:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I said the conception of God cannot be seperated from the reality of God, because one leads to the other. Wrong. Once again, I quote you directly: > [@Mickiel](#): > > The " Concept" preceeds the " Realness." One leads to the other and cannot exist without the other; there is no seperation. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/454 "2013-09-26T16:33:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So your “concept=reality” claim only works for the god you believe in? What do you think? Since you, like others here, seem to thrive on judging others. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/455 "2013-09-26T16:34:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Wrong. Once again, I quote you directly: That’s the same thing, are you blind? I have had enough of talking to you; I can only reason with the reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/456 "2013-09-26T16:34:50Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I did not say that was the " Theory" of evolution, but that IS a theory of evolution, according to who you ask It was your description, and that’s not a theory of evolution. Nobody who knows the first thing about evolution would describe it that way. > [@](#): > > I consider it an insult that you think you can look into my mind and define what I think about something, and you don’t even know me. I’m not looking into your mind. I am talking about what you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/457 "2013-09-26T16:34:53Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > What do you think? Since you, like others here, seem to thrive on judging others. What do I think? I think I just asked you a question. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/458 "2013-09-26T16:36:27Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I did not say that was the " Theory" of evolution, but that IS a theory of evolution, according to who you ask; Bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/459 "2013-09-26T16:38:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It was your description, and that’s not a theory of evolution. Nobody who knows the first thing about evolution would describe it that way. > > I’m not looking into your mind. I am talking about what you wrote. I’ll tell you my view of evolution. In my view, God created evolution , it did not create itself. Evolution as God created it, is change, designed change. Such as Pupi to Butterfly; a purposed evolving of a species or a thing. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/460 "2013-09-26T17:07:57Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I said the conception of God cannot be seperated from the reality of God, because one leads to the other. God is not a myth, only in your world is that true, and its a minority world; Atheist try to equate God with myths, because you have little else to garner support for your faulty views; I will not accept myths as evidence that God is a myth, that is contradiction, **you must use facts to disprove God, not myths.** Facts - There is no objective evidence of the supernatural There is no objective evidence of a ‘God’ or ‘Gods’. Similarly - there is No objective evidence of Unicorns - which you apparently agree with. Have a pleasant day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=24)