# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/541 "2013-09-26T21:07:24Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I totally disagree; the God I believe in will not loose one single human to some imaginary place for the wicked; we were created to live, and live with him in our future, and nothing; absolutely nothing can stop that in my view. Then why would he need to ‘Sacrifice his son’ to make sure that happened? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/542 "2013-09-26T21:08:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s a whole lot of wasted effort for a being that supposedly already knows everything, isn’t it? It appears that this definition of “god” is not strictly omnimax, like infinitely close to omnimax, but not quite there. It seems to be omnipresent in three dimensions without being extratemporal, thus it only knows almost everything short of what will happen next. If it is omnipotent, it seems to be kind of a major asshat they way it plays perverse and sadistic games with its creation, so I would certainly not count the idea of an eternal hellish torment beyond it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/543 "2013-09-26T21:13:10Z")
> [@For You](#): > > It appears that this definition of “god” is not strictly omnimax, like infinitely close to omnimax, but not quite there. It seems to be omnipresent in three dimensions without being extratemporal, thus it only knows almost everything short of what will happen next. If it is omnipotent, it seems to be kind of a major asshat they way it plays perverse and sadistic games with its creation, so I would certainly not count the idea of an eternal hellish torment beyond it. That’s a good point. **Mickiel** -Is your god all knowing and/or all powerful? ---
**Author:** ![ruben4ruben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@ruben4ruben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruben4ruben)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/544 "2013-09-26T21:39:00Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So - I did not ask if lies are ‘important in the equation’ - what I was asking - since you have a hard time following a simple question - > > You are clearly intimating that any group that believes (or teaches) ‘Hell Fire’ must be tools of ‘Satan’ because its a ‘lie’ - is that an accurate assessment ? > > Does believing a lie make you a tool of satan or does it require teaching it? > > Does any ‘inaccuracy’ count as a ‘lie’ - especially if the writer/teacher ‘knows better’ ? > > Does any single lie spoil the whole thing? Or does it take a quantity? how many? > > If you need a simpler way of looking at it - use a white piece of paper and a pencil - how many dots until the paper should be thrown out? I did not say anything like that. I did not mean anything as such. And i do not understand what you are saying nor can i follow your reasoning. (or the words you put in my mouth) Sorry. Actually i think this whole debated has drifted off. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/545 "2013-09-26T22:06:28Z")
> [@ruben4ruben](#): > > I did not say anything like that. I did not mean anything as such. And i do not understand what you are saying nor can i follow your reasoning. (or the words you put in my mouth) Sorry. > > Actually i think this whole debated has drifted off. Then why did you bother to respond? Or more importantly - what _ **exactly** _ were you trying to imply with this: > [@ruben4ruben](#): > > Instead of bringing people closer to God, the idea of hell has pushed them away from God. > We can easily say that it actually _accuses_ God. > > It’s a slanderous lie. Now who would think of such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/546 "2013-09-26T22:15:07Z")
> [@For You](#): > > That is not a valid opening. Using that notation, you count from the back row of the color being played, so you can only go to three or four (unlike the H-8 notation, which always orients to the white side). It wasn’t an opening, merely a move. (I’m old fashioned; I prefer the descriptive notation to the Cartesian. It has a kind of poetry that the new system lacks.) Our correspondent is definitely “playing games,” and, worse, refuses to tell us what his rules are. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/547 "2013-09-26T22:32:04Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Then why would he need to ‘Sacrifice his son’ to make sure that happened? You misunderstand yet again, the sacrifice was the surety of that happening, its something Jesus and God wanted to do together and be involved in. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/548 "2013-09-26T22:33:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yet another post in which you totally miss addressing the issue. Let be try to simplify it for you: > > _Why does a god that supposedly knows everything need to do research?_ Because that’s one of the ways that he knows everything?//? I don’t see why that is going over your head??/// ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/549 "2013-09-26T22:35:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is getting tiresome. The word is “lose”, not “loose”. Then stop taking it upon yourself to be the spellcheck, and bring other ways to embarass me into this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/550 "2013-09-26T22:42:28Z")
[QUOTE=ruben4ruben;16701665 Actually i think this whole debated has drifted off.[/QUOTE] Well that happens sometimes; but what can you do, just ignore everyone and keep pressing the point of the thread? No, you respond to as much of the inquirys as you can. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/551 "2013-09-26T22:49:53Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > You misunderstand yet again, the sacrifice was the surety of that happening, its something Jesus and God wanted to do together and be involved in. Seems “Jesus” forgot that part of the plan - [QUOTE=Jesus @ Mathew 27:46] About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[ [/QUOTE] But that still begs the question - if God gets what he wants - why was there ever any reason for there to be doubt? why did he have to go to this extreme - to require a sacrifice to fix/do what he was going to do anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/552 "2013-09-26T23:01:08Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Seems “Jesus” forgot that part of the plan - > > But that still begs the question - if God gets what he wants - why was there ever any reason for there to be doubt? why did he have to go to this extreme - to require a sacrifice to fix/do what he was going to do anyway? It again seems TO YOU , and YOUR mind that Jesus forgot parts of the plan, because your mind is conditioned and primed to find fault in all of the plan, and you can’t help yourself; God never doubted his plan, and Jesus never did either. Jesus just " Felt like" God had abandoned him, because he had never " Felt" like this before, he never died before. That was an entirely new experience for him. And the requirement was for the forgiveness of our sin, that God would not bargain with; because someone had to die to get it done like God wanted it done; and he wanted it done in a manner that only the shedding of blood could forgive our sins. But he personally tipped the scales in our favor, by requiring Jesus to be that sacrifice; and Jesus life was worth so much, all of us now will inherit eternal life. But sin had to be covered. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/553 "2013-09-26T23:29:06Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > It again seems TO YOU , and YOUR mind that Jesus forgot parts of the plan, because your mind is conditioned and primed to find fault in all of the plan, and you can’t help yourself; God never doubted his plan, and Jesus never did either. Jesus just " Felt like" God had abandoned him, because he had never " Felt" like this before, he never died before. That was an entirely new experience for him. > > And the requirement was for the forgiveness of our sin, that God would not bargain with; because someone had to die to get it done like God wanted it done; and he wanted it done in a manner that only the shedding of blood could forgive our sins. But he personally tipped the scales in our favor, by requiring Jesus to be that sacrifice; and Jesus life was worth so much, all of us now will inherit eternal life. > > But sin had to be covered. What religion are you, again? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/554 "2013-09-26T23:38:03Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > … he personally tipped the scales in our favor, by requiring Jesus to be that sacrifice; and Jesus life was worth so much, all of us now will inherit eternal life. Yet, the logic of the story comes up short. It had a happy ending, jesus was brought back from death and ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of jehovallah: he did not actually die, for an immortal being, he experienced a few hours of discomfort and a day or three as dead, then it all turned out ever so nice. _What sacrifice_? Seems pretty pathetic to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/555 "2013-09-26T23:46:44Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Yet, the logic of the story comes up short. It had a happy ending, jesus was brought back from death and ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of jehovallah: he did not actually die, for an immortal being, he experienced a few hours of discomfort and a day or three as dead, then it all turned out ever so nice. _What sacrifice_? Seems pretty pathetic to me. Your evaluation is warped, its wonderful to me, its the deal of the century for humans. And he did actually die. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/556 "2013-09-26T23:47:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What religion are you, again? I am not religious, I am not in any religion or group. I walk alone. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/557 "2013-09-26T23:49:50Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > It again seems TO YOU , and YOUR mind that Jesus forgot parts of the plan, because your mind is conditioned and primed to find fault in all of the plan, and you can’t help yourself; God never doubted his plan, and Jesus never did either. Jesus just " Felt like" God had abandoned him, because he had never " Felt" like this before, he never died before. That was an entirely new experience for him. > > And the requirement was for the forgiveness of our sin, that God would not bargain with; **because someone had to die to get it done like God wanted it done; and he wanted it done in a manner that only the shedding of blood could forgive our sins.** But he personally tipped the scales in our favor, by requiring Jesus to be that sacrifice; and Jesus life was worth so much, all of us now will inherit eternal life. > > But sin had to be covered. \ your god is a sick son of a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/558 "2013-09-26T23:53:50Z")
> [@simster](#): > > \ > > your god is a sick son of a bitch. Your cursing and foul language is a sure sign of insecurity in debate, since you resort to using it. Its disrespectful and reflects on you in many ways; but I understand the reaction. After all, if you had any other defense, you would use it, but when profanity is used to defend a position, its a sure sign the person has lost the debate and lost their control; Whats it feel like to be brought to that point? Tell me, what’s it feel like? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/559 "2013-09-26T23:56:58Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > It does not mean it to you, it does mean it to me. The " Concept" preceeds the " Realness." One leads to the other and cannot exist without the other; there is no seperation. Granting the validity of that statement (provisionally), does it hold true for ALL things for which a concept exists, or only for the Abrahamic God spoken of in the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/560 "2013-09-27T00:00:20Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Your cursing and foul language is a sure sign of insecurity in debate, since you resort to using it. Its disrespectful and reflects on you in many ways; but I understand the reaction. After all, if you had any other defense, you would use it, but when profanity is used to defend a position, its a sure sign the person has lost the debate and lost their control; > > Whats it feel like to be brought to that point? > > Tell me, what’s it feel like? In this case, I have lost no control whatsoever - I am stating a simple moral fact. One that I have no trouble defending. Would there be any doubt in your mind that if any man/priest/etc required a human sacrifice you would call them that? What is moral about blood lust? I have a feeling this is how you ‘win’ many of your debates - you simply declare yourself the winner - you’re not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=29)