# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/561 "2013-09-27T00:01:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Granting the validity of that statement (provisionally), does it hold true for ALL things for which a concept exists, or only for the Abrahamic God spoken of in the Bible? In my view, there is no such thing as an " Abrahamic God", there is only God. God is the standard, not you, not me, not religion, not anything human; he alone sets the rules of this game of life. and there is nothing; absolutely nothing we can do about that. ’ And I think we are most fortunate of that; because if men set the standard, then all of us would be in serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/562 "2013-09-27T00:02:58Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > In my view, there is no such thing as an " Abrahamic God", there is only God. God is the standard, not you, not me, not religion, not anything human; he alone sets the rules of this game of life. > > and there is nothing; > > absolutely nothing we can do about that. > ’ > And I think we are most fortunate of that; because if men set the standard, then all of us would be in serious trouble. Yet the only god you speak of is the ‘abrahamic god’ and all his trappings - Jesus, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/563 "2013-09-27T00:04:19Z")
> [@simster](#): > > In this case, I have lost no control whatsoever - I am stating a simple moral fact. One that I have no trouble defending. > > Would there be any doubt in your mind that if any man/priest/etc required a human sacrifice you would call them that? > > What is moral about blood lust? > > I have a feeling this is how you ‘win’ many of your debates - you simply declare yourself the winner - you’re not. No, what I am declaring is that I am finished responding to you, because I hold no interest in those who foul up a debate with childish foul language; peace on your journey. I have no more interest in responding to those who speak as such, because I don;'t do that to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/564 "2013-09-27T00:05:56Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No, what I am declaring is that I am finished responding to you, because I hold no interest in those who foul up a debate with childish foul language; peace on your journey. I have no more interest in responding to those who speak as such, because I don;'t do that to anyone. Nothing chidlish about the response or the declaration. Can’t answer the question, huh? What is moral about ‘blood lust’ ? Don’t like the hard questions, do you? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/565 "2013-09-27T00:06:58Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Your evaluation is warped, its wonderful to me, its the deal of the century for humans. And he did actually die. No, he did not. If he actually had died, he would be now dead, no one would be praying to him, thanking him for the winning touchdown, be being watched over by him. He came back! What a wonderful miracle – except, it makes his “sacrifice” entirely meaningless. In terms of an immortal lifespan, it was a bad hair day, a touch of oblivion, and now things are right-as-rain forever more (“_hey, remember when I was crucified and all? good times_ :p”). God did not lose his son, he got him back, and neither of them ever had any doubts that it would turn out that way. So how that possibly works out as any sort of “sacrifice” is beyond reason. I guess you are welcome to be happy because of it, given the intense conditioning you were subjected to in order to elevate your faith, but from the outside, it looks as absurd as Zeus fucking Io and Hera getting all pissed about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/566 "2013-09-27T00:09:14Z")
> [@For You](#): > > No, he did not. If he actually had died, he would be now dead, no one would be praying to him, thanking him for the winning touchdown, be being watched over by him. He came back! What a wonderful miracle – except, it makes his “sacrifice” entirely meaningless. In terms of an immortal lifespan, it was a bad hair day, a touch of oblivion, and now things are right-as-rain forever more (“_hey, remember when I was crucified and all? good times_ :p”). God did not lose his son, he got him back, and neither of them ever had any doubts that it would turn out that way. So how that possibly works out as any sort of “sacrifice” is beyond reason. I guess you are welcome to be happy because of it, given the intense conditioning you were subjected to in order to elevate your faith, but from the outside, it looks as absurd as Zeus fucking Io and Hera getting all pissed about it. I have no faith, I believe because of my research of the facts. I don’t have faith in God, I have a serious belief in him, because I see nothingelse worth believing in. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/567 "2013-09-27T00:19:07Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have no faith, I believe because of my research of the facts. I don’t have faith in God, I have a serious belief in him, because I see nothingelse worth believing in. What is your definition of Faith? You clearly arent using any of the normal definitions for it. Not that thats surprising at this stage of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/568 "2013-09-27T00:26:28Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Yet, the logic of the story comes up short. It had a happy ending, jesus was brought back from death and ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of jehovallah: he did not actually die, for an immortal being, he experienced a few hours of discomfort and a day or three as dead, then it all turned out ever so nice. _What sacrifice_? Seems pretty pathetic to me. Jesus gave up a holiday weekend for your sins. (totally stolen.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/569 "2013-09-27T00:47:10Z")
> [@For You](#): > > . . . He came back! What a wonderful miracle – except, it makes his “sacrifice” entirely meaningless. . . . Well, he’s stuck with holes in his hands, feet, and ribs. Permanently scarred, never to have the smooth skin of youth again. That’s kind of sad. It isn’t quite the same as laying down his life, but it is a small sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/570 "2013-09-27T00:48:06Z")
Okay, fine. Granting the validity of that statement (provisionally), does it hold true for ALL things for which a concept exists, or only for God? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/571 "2013-09-27T00:52:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, he’s stuck with holes in his hands, feet, and ribs. Permanently scarred, never to have the smooth skin of youth again. That’s kind of sad. It isn’t quite the same as laying down his life, but it is a small sacrifice. Small sacrifice indeed. I have it on good authority that chicks DIG scars. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/572 "2013-09-27T00:54:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, he’s stuck with holes in his hands, feet, and ribs. Permanently scarred, never to have the smooth skin of youth again. That’s kind of sad. It isn’t quite the same as laying down his life, but it is a small sacrifice. Well, he had to do some magic to show Thomas the scars - so, clearly he has the ability to look ‘perfect’ (for various definitions of ‘perfect’). Also, since there is no ‘hell’ for torment or punishment, seems at most he took a nap for those three days and wasn’t even aware of time passing… so, it was like "an instant’ for him. I guess he ‘got better’. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/573 "2013-09-27T01:51:09Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, he’s stuck with holes in his hands, feet, and ribs. I always pictured jesus going into a salon, holding out his hands and asking to have his nails done. Though, if his feet were also involved, that would present something of a challenge for a triclavianist. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/574 "2013-09-27T01:59:01Z")
**For You** : thank you! I’d never heard of triclavianism! A new concept is a wonderful gift for the day! (Is there nothing Christians won’t fight each other over? I was particularly amused by the note, “The judgement of the Pope was confirmed by a miracle.” That sure must be nice! Can I have a couple of my personal opinions confirmed by a miracle?) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/575 "2013-09-27T02:05:51Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > It again seems TO YOU , and YOUR mind that Jesus forgot parts of the plan, because your mind is conditioned and primed to find fault in all of the plan, and you can’t help yourself > [@Mickiel](#): > > Your cursing and foul language is a sure sign of insecurity in debate, since you resort to using it. Its disrespectful and reflects on you in many ways; but I understand the reaction. After all, if you had any other defense, you would use it, but when profanity is used to defend a position, its a sure sign the person has lost the debate and lost their control; > > Whats it feel like to be brought to that point? > > Tell me, what’s it feel like? **Mickiel** , for all your complaints about the way other people are addressing you, you’re resorting to a very obnoxious tone here. Stop or take it to The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/576 "2013-09-27T02:26:13Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have no faith, I believe because of my research of the facts. I don’t have faith in God, I have a serious belief in him, because I see nothingelse worth believing in. You have said previously that you believe that Jesus is the Son of your god. Do you believe that he rose again after dying on the cross? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/577 "2013-09-27T02:46:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **For You** : thank you! I’d never heard of triclavianism! A new concept is a wonderful gift for the day! > > (Is there nothing Christians won’t fight each other over? I was particularly amused by the note, “The judgement of the Pope was confirmed by a miracle.” That sure must be nice! Can I have a couple of my personal opinions confirmed by a miracle?) Hey, np, I first heard about it recently on the Dope (damn, I gotta stop opening the religion type threads) where someone posted [a link to a sort of satire site](http://objectiveministries.org/pastorscorner/) where they “espouse” antitriclavianism, which, you have to admit, really rolls off the tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/578 "2013-09-27T02:59:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Mickiel** , for all your complaints about the way other people are addressing you, you’re resorting to a very obnoxious tone here. Stop or take it to The BBQ Pit. I am curious, when people curse while addressing me, do you consider that obnoxious, or are you more interested in showing Atheist favor over Theist? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/579 "2013-09-27T03:26:19Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I am curious, when people curse while addressing me, do you consider that obnoxious, or are you more interested in showing Atheist favor over Theist? Nobody cursed _at_ you. The point I am hoping you will understand is that you can pretty much say what you want about someone’s argument, but making personal comments about a poster - like saying they’re “conditioned” or taunting them because you think they’re uncomfortable - isn’t appropriate for this forum. It’s fine in the Pit, but not here. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/580 "2013-09-27T03:39:14Z")
> [@For You](#): > > I always pictured jesus going into a salon, holding out his hands and asking to have his nails done. _\_ 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=30)