# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/641 "2013-09-27T15:14:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I have a feeling that if I went and read some more I’d find it’s less “stunningly accurate” than you say, but that’s not the point: I think most people agree the Bible contains some actual references to history. It’s not all historically accurate. Take the Exodus, for example: it didn’t happen. The Hebrews were never enslaved in Egypt and there’s no evidence of a very large group of people crossing the Sinai, as the Bible says they did. Well the things I listed are accurate, look them up and see for yourself. What cannot be proven, such as miracles, simply cannot be proven; but what can be proven, can be proven; there is no call for trying to take away from what can be proven, by harping on what cannot be proven. Such as Elijah when he predicted Jezebel would be eaten by dogs in B.C. 855, 1 Kings 21:23, that was fulfilled in 841 B.C., 2 Kings 9:36. A stunning prophecy. Amos predicts in 760 B.C. that Israel would be restored as a nation, ( 9:15), and never be uprooted again. That was fulfilled in 1948; yet another stunning biblical prophecy. Unreal! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/642 "2013-09-27T15:16:09Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well the things I listed are accurate, look them up and see for yourself. What cannot be proven, such as miracles, simply cannot be proven; but what can be proven, can be proven; there is no call for trying to take away from what can be proven, by harping on what cannot be proven. > > Such as Elijah when he predicted Jezebel would be eaten by dogs in B.C. 855, 1 Kings 21:23, that was fulfilled in 841 B.C., 2 Kings 9:36. A stunning prophecy. > > Amos predicts in 760 B.C. that Israel would be restored as a nation, ( 9:15), and never be uprooted again. That was fulfilled in 1948; yet another stunning biblical prophecy. **Unreal**! \ On that we agree. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/643 "2013-09-27T15:17:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sigh. > Are there any other books that other religions consider “holy” that you have studied? I don’t study religious books; I study science, dictionarys, history books, Conan the Barbarian comics and Archaeology books. I’m sorry, i neglected to add the bible to this list, which I do not consider as a religious book. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/644 "2013-09-27T15:21:54Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Such as Elijah when he predicted Jezebel would be eaten by dogs in B.C. 855, 1 Kings 21:23, that was fulfilled in 841 B.C., 2 Kings 9:36. A stunning prophecy. Is there any evidence that this part of the Bible was written after 855 B.C. and before 841 B.C.? No evidence-no prophesy. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/645 "2013-09-27T15:22:01Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Amos predicts in 760 B.C. that Israel would be restored as a nation, ( 9:15), and never be uprooted again. That was fulfilled in 1948; yet another stunning biblical prophecy. Unreal! No, this doesn’t point to 1948, it points to the end of the Babylonian exile. Judah and Israel are again united into one state and their people will never be uprooted(as in _exiled_) again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/646 "2013-09-27T15:22:19Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well the things I listed are accurate That’s not the point, though. You said its archaeology is “right on target,” and it isn’t. It’s accurate about some stuff and inaccurate about other stuff. That sounds a lot less miraculous to me. Oh, and then there’s the whole flood thing. There’s no evidence of a global flood a few thousand years ago, and it’s not like nobody looked. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/647 "2013-09-27T15:25:19Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t study religious books; I study science, dictionarys, history books, Conan the Barbarian comics and Archaeology books. > > I’m sorry, i neglected to add the bible to this list, which I do not consider as a religious book. So the Bible isn’t a religious book, but the Quran is? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/648 "2013-09-27T15:26:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any evidence that this part of the Bible was written after 855 B.C. and before 841 B.C.? No evidence-no prophesy. I have not seen any; but I have seen as early as 400. > **[Carbon dating the Dead Sea Scrolls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating_the_Dead_Sea_Scrolls)** > > Carbon dating the Dead Sea Scrolls refers to a series of radiocarbon dating tests performed on the Dead Sea Scrolls, first by the AMS (Accelerator Mass Spectrometry) lab of the Zurich Institute of Technology in 1991 and then by the AMS Facility at the University of Arizona in Tucson in 1994–95. There was also a historical test of a piece of linen performed in 1946 by Willard Libby, the inventor of the dating method. > One of the earliest carbon dating tests was carried out on November 14, 1950. Th... ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/649 "2013-09-27T15:27:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So the Bible isn’t a religious book, but the Quran is? I don’t know what the Quran is, I have never studied it, and have no views on it. What do you think it is? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/650 "2013-09-27T15:28:01Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have not seen any; but I have seen as early as 400. > > [Carbon dating the Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating_the_Dead_Sea_Scrolls) YOu realize thats 400 years AFTER the fact, right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/651 "2013-09-27T15:30:54Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have not seen any; but I have seen as early as 400. > > [Carbon dating the Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dating_the_Dead_Sea_Scrolls) That has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked, does it? Do you understand that for the prophesy you posted to be true, it _had_ to have been written after the prophesy was made and before the supposed prophesy was fulfilled? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/652 "2013-09-27T15:33:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not the point, though. You said its archaeology is “right on target,” and it isn’t. It’s accurate about some stuff and inaccurate about other stuff. That sounds a lot less miraculous to me. Oh, and then there’s the whole flood thing. There’s no evidence of a global flood a few thousand years ago, and it’s not like nobody looked. Its on target where its on target, and nothing can change that. It falls short where it falls short, but what cannot be proven, in no manner takes away from what can; again; yet AGAIN, still more evidence which you are purposely choosing to ignore; Isaiah predicts in 732 BC the Medo Persian empire will conquer Babylon , Is. 13:17-18, and that Babylon would become a wasteland. Listen, in 538 BC that is exactly what happened when Medes took over Babylon and 275 BC when the Seleucids forced all leave. Again right on target. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/653 "2013-09-27T15:35:10Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t know what the Quran is, I have never studied it, and have no views on it. What do you think it is? You have _got_ to be kidding me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/654 "2013-09-27T15:37:08Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Its on target where its on target, and nothing can change that. It falls short where it falls short, but what cannot be proven, in no manner takes away from what can; again; yet AGAIN, still more evidence which you are purposely choosing to ignore; > > Isaiah predicts in 732 BC the Medo Persian empire will conquer Babylon , Is. 13:17-18, and that Babylon would become a wasteland. Listen, in 538 BC that is exactly what happened when Medes took over Babylon and 275 BC when the Seleucids forced all leave. Again right on target. Can you show that _any_ of your predictions were written down after the prophesy and before the prophesy was supposedly fulfilled? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/655 "2013-09-27T15:40:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That has absolutely nothing to do with the question I asked, does it? Do you understand that for the prophesy you posted to be true, it _had_ to have been written after the prophesy was made and before the supposed prophesy was fulfilled? Sure I understand, and I have already listed numerous examples, explain to me why you have not read them? Prove any of them to be false; and show me why they did not happen in our history. Heres yet another one; lets see if you see this one; Predicted ca 701 BC Isaiah claims Israel will be taken captive by the Babylonian empire, Isaiah chap. 39. Fulfilled ca 597&598 BC, ( you are counting forward in time, but because of BC it seems backwards) Babylon takes captives and sacks Jerusalem the first time, then Czarcasm it totally destroys it about 10 years later. Stunning prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/656 "2013-09-27T15:41:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You have _got_ to be kidding me. :rolleyes: No I am not kidding, I am not interested. In fact I have had a Quran for about 7 years now, and have NEVER even opened it. Its just there on the rack. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/657 "2013-09-27T15:44:58Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Its on target where its on target, and nothing can change that. It falls short where it falls short So by “right on target,” you meant “sometimes wrong.” You know that’s not how that expression is normally used, right? You could communicate your points much more clearly if you stopped redefining words like this. I never said there were zero accurate things in there; you suggested everything in it was right. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/658 "2013-09-27T15:47:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So by “right on target,” you meant “sometimes wrong.” You know that’s not how that expression is normally used, right? You could communicate your points much more clearly if you stopped redefining words like this. I never said there were zero accurate things in there; you suggested everything in it was right. I have not suggested everything is right, in fact I have gone out of my way to repeatedly claim it has false things in it; this whole thread is named after one of the false things in it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/659 "2013-09-27T15:47:43Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Sure I understand, and I have already listed numerous examples, explain to me why you have not read them? Prove any of them to be false; and show me why they did not happen in our history. > > Heres yet another one; lets see if you see this one; > > Predicted ca 701 BC Isaiah claims Israel will be taken captive by the Babylonian empire, Isaiah chap. 39. Fulfilled ca 597&598 BC, ( you are counting forward in time, but because of BC it seems backwards) Babylon takes captives and sacks Jerusalem the first time, then Czarcasm it totally destroys it about 10 years later. Stunning prophecy. Same question as before…but expecting the same diversion/lack of response. If _you_ put forth that these are prophesies, then it is _your_ responsibility to show that they fulfill the requirements. Adding even more of these unsubstantiated claims does absolutely nothing to help your case. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/660 "2013-09-27T15:49:22Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No I am not kidding, I am not interested. In fact I have had a Quran for about 7 years now, and have NEVER even opened it. Its just there on the rack. So you _do_ know what a Quran is. Is there a reason you have not bothered to read it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=34)