# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/661 "2013-09-27T15:49:47Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No I am not kidding, I am not interested. In fact I have had a Quran for about 7 years now, and have NEVER even opened it. Its just there on the rack. So, what did you mean when you stated - [QUOTE=Mickiel] I don’t know what the Quran is, I have never studied it, and have no views on it. What do you think it is? [/QUOTE] You clearly know what it IS - as you have one. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/662 "2013-09-27T15:54:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Same question as before…but expecting the same diversion/lack of response. If _you_ put forth that these are prophesies, then it is _your_ responsibility to show that they fulfill the requirements. Adding even more of these unsubstantiated claims does absolutely nothing to help your case. Case? I am not presenting a case, I am listing proven history. I often wonder at times why its ignored; but that aside, because its a mystery to me why one can list things in history and they be ignored or maybe just not believed, all of what I listed has already been substantiated, such as; Ezk. 29:15, Egypt would never again rule over other nations, this was written between 593-571 BC Fulfilled in 1967 , during my life time! Ohhh, stunning biblical prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/663 "2013-09-27T15:56:51Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have not suggested everything is right, in fact I have gone out of my way to repeatedly claim it has false things in it; this whole thread is named after one of the false things in it. You suggested all of its archaeology is right, and it isn’t. > [@Mickiel](#): > > There is no assumption in study, in all my 50 year study of the bible, I know most of it is correct; not all of it. Its morals are sound, its reasoning uncanny sound; **its archaeology right on target historically** ; its principles have stood the test of time. Many of its prophecys fulfilled; and it has influenced humanity since its conception, like NOTHINGELSE! > [@Mickiel](#): > > Ezk. 29:15, Egypt would never again rule over other nations, this was written between 593-571 BC > > Fulfilled in 1967 , during my life time! Ohhh, stunning biblical prophecy. So the prophecy that Egypt would never again rule over other nations was “fulfilled” after Egypt ruled over other nations for 2,500 more years? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/664 "2013-09-27T15:58:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you _do_ know what a Quran is. Is there a reason you have not bothered to read it? I don’t know what the Quran is, I have no interest in it, but that is not to say I never will. I have very little interest in religion, but I am highly interested in the events in the Middle East, which is changing my interest in religion. I will admit to that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/665 "2013-09-27T15:59:55Z")
Well it’s not like the Quran has had much impact on events in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/666 "2013-09-27T16:01:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You suggested all of its archaeology is right, and it isn’t. > So the prophecy that Egypt would never again rule over other nations was “fulfilled” after Egypt ruled over other nations for 2,500 more years? I am surprised you have not requested a cite. > **[Bible prophecy from Ezekiel 29:15](http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/ezekiel_29_15.htm)** > > An explanation of Bible prophecy found in the book of Ezekiel ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/667 "2013-09-27T16:04:35Z")
For something to be considered a proper prediction/prophesy, it must: 1. Predict _what_ will happen. 2. Predict _where_ it will happen. 3. Predict _when_ it will happen. 4. Do these three things _before_ the event happens. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/668 "2013-09-27T16:05:02Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I am surprised you have not requested a cite. If you are interpreting the word “never” to mean “for another 2,500 years,” I don’t need a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/669 "2013-09-27T16:15:54Z")
Well anyhow, back to topic, If hell is real, why wasn’t Cain warned about it? Why wasn’t Sodom and Gomorrah warned about it? If hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the bible? If hell is real, why didn’t the Apostle Paul, of all people, warn about it in any of his letters? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/670 "2013-09-27T16:16:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For something to be considered a proper prediction/prophesy, it must: > > 1. Predict _what_ will happen. > 2. Predict _where_ it will happen. > 3. Predict _when_ it will happen. > 4. Do these three things _before_ the event happens. It also needs to be pretty darn specific on all three of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/671 "2013-09-27T16:21:36Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well anyhow, back to topic, > > If hell is real, why wasn’t Cain warned about it? Why wasn’t Sodom and Gomorrah warned about it? > > If hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the bible? > > If hell is real, why didn’t the Apostle Paul, of all people, warn about it in any of his letters? How about heaven? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/672 "2013-09-27T16:23:34Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well anyhow, back to topic, > > If hell is real, why wasn’t Cain warned about it? Why wasn’t Sodom and Gomorrah warned about it? > > If hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the bible? > > If hell is real, why didn’t the Apostle Paul, of all people, warn about it in any of his letters? 1. Because he wasn’t told about it. 2. Does it? 3. Because he didn’t get around to talking about it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/673 "2013-09-27T16:23:47Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well anyhow, back to topic, > > If hell is real, why wasn’t Cain warned about it? Why wasn’t Sodom and Gomorrah warned about it? > > If hell is real, why are its roots in paganism, rather than the bible? > > If hell is real, why didn’t the Apostle Paul, of all people, warn about it in any of his letters? a) Cain was one of 4 people alive at the time - no one else ‘knew’ to warn him - and god likes keeping secrets - or maybe due to Cain, Hell was created. b) prove those roots are teh same c) because he wasn’t concerned with it? ask him. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/674 "2013-09-27T16:36:01Z")
Interesting responses; but if hell is real why is it not mentioned even once in the book of Acts in any evangelistic sermons by the first Apostles? If hell is real, why does some of the best bible scholars and teachers say its not in the original texts? ( William Barclay, John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, FW Farrar, Marvin Vincent,) ect… ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/675 "2013-09-27T16:38:45Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Interesting responses; but if hell is real why is it not mentioned even once in the book of Acts in any evangelistic sermons by the first Apostles? > > If hell is real, why does some of the best bible scholars and teachers say its not in the original texts? ( William Barclay, John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, FW Farrar, Marvin Vincent,) ect… Do you have ‘all’ of the ‘evangelistic sermons by the first Apostles’ or just a sample? Isn’t it enough that its mentioned by JESUS himslef as well as John for the ‘end times’ ? What makes them the ‘best’ bible scholars? becuase they espouse an opinion you agree with? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/676 "2013-09-27T17:05:26Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Interesting responses; but if hell is real why is it not mentioned even once in the book of Acts in any evangelistic sermons by the first Apostles? Also - they had just been promised that "the new kingdom would come’ before some of them died - they clearly were not worried about the ‘afterlife’ at thta point in time. Thier message was focused on this ‘Good News’ and no need for ‘dire consequences’ was needed. [QUOTE=JESUS@ Mathew 16:28] "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/677 "2013-09-27T17:41:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > There is no such thing as a " Christian bible", that is popular deception, the bible is not owned by Christians and no group on earth holds any legal rights to it. Prove to me that it is " A Christian bible"; I am announcing to you that it is " A bible", and no group of people can lay ownership to it. Produce any legal papers that Christians have on it; produce to me any legal docuements that Christians have on the bible to support your claim that it belongs exclusively to them; I challange you to produce any evidence to back up you giving them exclusive ownership of it. And there is absolutely no such thing as " The Christian God", your using the same mentality and now your giving Christians ownership of God himself; God has NEVER endorsed Christianity, nor has Jesus; now prove to be that they own God. [del]_(Note to **Mickiel** : This isn’t really intended to be a response to your post, nor is it addressed to you)_ NOW are all of you guys willing to get down off your high horses about me being a _“PRESCRIPTIVIST”_? :rolleyes:[/del] **Mickiel** , you appear to be using this cavil as an excuse to not address the substance of **monavis** ’s post. I’ll go so far as to say that you appear to be pretending that you don’t understand the substance of the post. Do you deny that of the other major religions in the world (such as Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism [add as many others as you are willing to concede count as “major”]) NONE of them claim some version of the OT + NT Bible\* as a primary scriptural source? If you do deny that, please list the ones that _do_ claim it as a primary scriptural source, and provide some evidence that they do. Do you deny that of the major scriptural sources extant in the world today (such as the Torah, any version of the OT + NT Bible\*, the Koran, the Baghavad Gita, Dianetics, the Book of Mormon [add as many others as you are willing to concede count as “major”]) ONLY some version of the OT + NT Bible\* is used as the primary scriptural source by every sect which calls itself “Christian?” Again: if you do deny that, please list another scripture that you believe all Christian sects use. \*(for the purposes of this post, “OT + NT Bible” means any version of the Bible that includes both the Old Testament and the New Testament, and I specify it here to distinguish it from the Torah) If you do not deny either of the above, I can only infer from your rant above that you are pretending to believe that when people point out that you embrace the “Christian Bible” they might be falsely claiming that any or all Christian sects are attempting to assert intellectual property rights over it. There is really no excuse for not knowing that “Christian Bible” is a perfectly valid term for describing the set of scriptures that you have been discussing in this thread. So, I’ll come out and say it" _“The Christian Bible” is a perfectly valid term for describing the set of scriptures you have been discussing in this thread, **and you know it**._ I _DO_ hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for telling you what it is that you know. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/678 "2013-09-27T17:44:10Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The concept of eternal hell suffering is troublesome and really a slur on God’s reputation. Its really an attempt by satan to plant a sinister doctrine of demons into a church and to get them to spread it as if it is the truth; and I think he has accomplished this attempt. Which reveals his awesome powers of deception. Don’t worry about it. Virtually nobody here buys it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/679 "2013-09-27T17:49:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Don’t worry about it. Virtually nobody here buys it. The trouble is, the way he is doing this might cause some to rethink their position on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/680 "2013-09-27T20:38:08Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Like I said up thread before; some ask for evidence, cry for proof, claim there is none, when its provided, they spit on it and claim its not proof. > > Go figure. Like I said upthread, if I claimed that the Wizard of Oz is true, and you asked me for evidence, and I told you Kansas exists and there are tornadoes so there. What would your response to that be? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=35)