# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/761 "2013-09-29T14:55:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The debate is not about winning or loosing, its about an exchange of views. > > And I enjoy that. This is a debate forum - while it is certainly about ‘exchanging of views’ - its also about being able to back them up logically/reasonably or at least by reference to citations - you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/762 "2013-09-29T15:09:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What a refreshing thing to have you say in this conversation. 🙂 However, I would prefer to not go off on a tangent about whether you’ve used the phrase before in this thread, so let’s move on. Would it be fair to infer from what you’ve posted that you believe God has existence in two different phases, so to speak, BEFORE He created parts of Himself, and AFTER He created parts of Himself? > [@Mickiel](#): > > Yes, but I personally believe that he exist in Seven different Phases. O-o-o-ka-a-a-y. In your view, can these seven different phases be considered to have some chronological order in which they began to exist, such as: Earliest-existing Phase -\> Phase I; Next Phase -\> Phase 2; _etc._; most-recently-existing Phase -\> Phase 7? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/763 "2013-09-29T15:18:15Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > O-o-o-ka-a-a-y. > > In your view, can these seven different phases be considered to have some chronological order in which they began to exist, such as: Earliest-existing Phase -\> Phase I; Next Phase -\> Phase 2; _etc._; most-recently-existing Phase -\> Phase 7? I think God, ( now mind you, this is only my speculation, which could or could not be true), is a " Spirit Being", but I think he may have upwards of seven Spirits; I think consciousness is " A Spirit", so I think God may well have Seven different Consciousness, or one could say Seven different minds. Or Seven forms of Power, or even yes, seven stages of existence. And I think they all co-exist in perfect unity. Whatever they are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/764 "2013-09-29T15:26:07Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I think God, ( now mind you, this is only my speculation, which could or could not be true), is a " Spirit Being", but I think he may have upwards of seven Spirits; I think consciousness is " A Spirit", so I think God may well have Seven different Consciousness, or one could say Seven different minds. Or Seven forms of Power, or even yes, seven stages of existence. > > And I think they all co-exist in perfect unity. Whatever they are. Did you determine that there were seven different phases all on your own, or did you build on the teachings of someone else? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/765 "2013-09-29T15:35:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did you determine that there were seven different phases all on your own, or did you build on the teachings of someone else? Nevermind-I’m not interested in going down another of your rabbit holes. Back to Hell(and all the better for it): Is there a version of the Bible that best suits your take on the existence of Hell? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/766 "2013-09-29T15:37:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did you determine that there were seven different phases all on your own, or did you build on the teachings of someone else? Both. In Rev. 4:5, and several other verses it mentions the Seven Spirits of God. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/767 "2013-09-29T15:38:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nevermind-I’m not interested in going down another of your rabbit holes. > > Back to Hell(and all the better for it): Is there a version of the Bible that best suits your take on the existence of Hell? I don’t think hell should be in any bible. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/768 "2013-09-29T15:40:24Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t think hell should be in any bible. That’s nice. Now, how about answering the question I actually asked? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/769 "2013-09-29T15:47:09Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No, he is a perfect work in perfect progress. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Absolute nonsense. Have you ever opened a dictionary? Look up the word “perfect”. Where is it written that the dictionary owns the word “perfect”? The word "perfect is not owned by the dictionary and no group on earth holds any legal rights to it. Prove to me that it is “The dictionary’s word _perfect_”; I am announcing to you that it is “PERFECT”, and no group of people can lay ownership to it. Produce any legal papers that the dictionary has on it; produce to me any legal docuements that the dictionary has on the word “perfect” to support your claim that it belongs exclusively to the dictionary; I challange you to produce any evidence to back up you giving them exclusive ownership of it. This is an arguement that you will loose. How does that make you feel? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/770 "2013-09-29T15:50:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Where is it written that the dictionary owns the word “perfect”? The word "perfect is not owned by the dictionary and no group on earth holds any legal rights to it. Prove to me that it is “The dictionary’s word _perfect_”; I am announcing to you that it is “PERFECT”, and no group of people can lay ownership to it. Produce any legal papers that the dictionary has on it; produce to me any legal docuements that the dictionary has on the word “perfect” to support your claim that it belongs exclusively to the dictionary; I challange you to produce any evidence to back up you giving them exclusive ownership of it. This is an arguement that you will loose. > > How does that make you feel? Nows that’s funny; I just had to laugh!🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/771 "2013-09-29T15:50:42Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I think God, ( now mind you, this is only my speculation, which could or could not be true), is a " Spirit Being", but I think he may have upwards of seven Spirits; I think consciousness is " A Spirit", so I think God may well have Seven different Consciousness, or one could say Seven different minds. Or Seven forms of Power, or even yes, seven stages of existence. > > And I think they all co-exist in perfect unity. Whatever they are. But I’m asking you if they all began existing at the same time, or if the one that created the other parts existed before the other phases existed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/772 "2013-09-29T15:50:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s nice. > Now, how about answering the question I actually asked? [Here is a handy list to choose from.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/773 "2013-09-29T15:52:35Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Nows that’s funny; I just had to laugh!🙂 Then realize that we laugh even harder when _you_ do it. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/774 "2013-09-29T15:53:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s nice. > Now, how about answering the question I actually asked? Heres a handy list to choose from; [http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellChart.html](http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellChart.html) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/775 "2013-09-29T15:56:18Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Heres a handy list to choose from; > > [http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellChart.html](http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellChart.html) Which one do you refer to the most when studying and/or quoting the Bible? edited to add: I am willing to meet you halfway and discuss the use of the word “hell” in the Bible…but you have to choose the Bible you are referring to first. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/776 "2013-09-29T15:56:49Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > But I’m asking you if they all began existing at the same time, or if the one that created the other parts existed before the other phases existed. I have no ideal. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/777 "2013-09-29T15:57:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which one do you refer to the most when studying and/or quoting the Bible? Scofields New Study Bible. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/778 "2013-09-29T16:01:18Z")
All right, try this one: I am inferring that you consider the seven Phases as being 1) The Phase of God that created the other parts of God, and 2) - 7) The other six Phases. Is that a fair inference? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/779 "2013-09-29T16:08:42Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Scofields New Study Bible. Since it wasn’t on your list of Bibles, how many times does the word appear in that version of the Bible, both in the Old and the New Testament? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/780 "2013-09-29T16:20:20Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > All right, try this one: I am inferring that you consider the seven Phases as being 1) The Phase of God that created the other parts of God, and 2) - 7) The other six Phases. > > Is that a fair inference? I don’t know. I think God is basically uncreated, which I cannot explain, but he has gone through changes in my view, but he has principles that never change. I think none of his Spirits ever change, in one aspect, but they do in another. So its just hard to explain. One of the Spirits I believe is Consciousness, which has a strange duality in my view, in that it is just not totally known. But I think all seven of his Spirits are conscious entities. I think another one of those Spirits is Fire; I think God is a type of " Fire Being", in that fire is always around him, and I think its actually in him. I think another one of those Spirits is " Sound", because that is always around him, and it comes out of him in Power. Speaking of Power, I think that is another conscious spirit of God. If one of these Spirits pre dates the others, I don’t know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=40)