# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/61 "2013-09-24T02:40:44Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Come on man, humans can’t do that now, and the results have so much cohesion. Except that the results _don’t_ have so much cohesion. “Look at this–this set of writings, written over the span of centuries, is in perfect cohesion!” “What about this part here and this other part over here, which disagree?” “Oh, they don’t disagree–they can’t! You must be misinterpreting them!” “Why can’t they just disagree?” “Because this set of writings has such a miraculous lack of disagreement!” “😕” Also, it’s not really true that none of the authors of the Bible “compared notes”. Certainly the author or authors of the Book of Isaiah didn’t have access to the Gospel according to Matthew, but Matthew certainly had access to the Book of Isaiah and other parts of the Old Testament. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/62 "2013-09-24T02:48:31Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Except that the results _don’t_ have so much cohesion. > > “Look at this–this set of writings, written over the span of centuries, is in perfect cohesion!” > “What about this part here and this other part over here, which disagree?” > “Oh, they don’t disagree–they can’t! You must be misinterpreting them!” > “Why can’t they just disagree?” > “Because this set of writings has such a miraculous lack of disagreement!” > “😕” > > Also, it’s not really true that none of the authors of the Bible “compared notes”. Certainly the author or authors of the Book of Isaiah didn’t have access to the Gospel according to Matthew, but Matthew certainly had access to the Book of Isaiah and other parts of the Old Testament. They did not compare notes , its impossible for the OT writers to compare notes with the NT writers; come on man. Get real! It is true they did not compare notes. Your talking about 1450 B.C. comparing notes with 50 to 90 A.D. I understand your need to disagree, but goodness, at least lets be reasonable. Comparing means both authors communicate with each other; explain to me how they did it? No author of the bible ever mentions doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/63 "2013-09-24T02:52:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > . . . the first book printed on a press. . . . Not quite. The Chinese had movable-type presses before Gutenberg came along. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/64 "2013-09-24T02:54:41Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > They did not compare notes , its impossible for the OT writers to compare notes with the NT writers; come on man. Get real! It is true they did not compare notes. Your talking about 1450 B.C. comparing notes with 50 to 90 A.D. I understand your need to disagree, but goodness, at least lets be reasonable. Comparing means both authors communicate with each other; explain to me how they did it? No author of the bible ever mentions doing it. Yeah, that’s pretty much what I said–OT writers couldn’t compare notes with NT writers–but NT writers were perfectly aware of what had been written by the OT writers, so if something somebody writes in the New Testament is (allegedly) in “perfect cohesion” with something written in the Old Testament, this doesn’t imply anything miraculous or extraordinary, just that 1st century Jews and early Christians were literate and had access to the Old Testament writings (which are not things that anybody seriously disagrees with). Both between the Old and New Testaments and within each testament, there exists the possibility that later writers could have read and been influenced by earlier writers. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/65 "2013-09-24T03:02:00Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > They did not compare notes , its impossible for the OT writers to compare notes with the NT writers; come on man. Get real! It is true they did not compare notes. Your talking about 1450 B.C. comparing notes with 50 to 90 A.D. I understand your need to disagree, but goodness, at least lets be reasonable. Comparing means both authors communicate with each other; explain to me how they did it? No author of the bible ever mentions doing it. Your reading comprehension shows thru - He said ‘NT writers used the OT for reference’ - it was one of the ways they tried to show that Jesus was the Messiah - He did not say the OT authors had access to the NT. But if you believe the Bible is ‘Gods word’ - well, he dictated it to those 40 authors, they all had access to the same source — who are you to ‘cherry pick’ GODS WORD? Hell, it even says its Gods word right there in teh bible! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/66 "2013-09-24T03:04:31Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well speaking of cease to exist, in my view of God, and I don’t want to give impression that I know God , because I don’t; but in my view, if God does not like something, for whatever reason he can simply " Will it out of existence", and not be bothered with it in eternity. > > I mean he must have that much sense, why make an eternal monument out of something he does not like? > > This must be considered. considered and dismissed - he chose to FLOOD THE PLANET becuase he didn’t like his creation - he will again choose to destroy most of it @ Armageddon because he doesn’t like the way its going - so - yeah - seems while he ‘could’ just handwave it away - he won’t - because he prefers to torture folks. your cherry picked ‘good parts version’ of the bible and god do not match up. Thats just ‘reality’. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/67 "2013-09-24T03:25:14Z")
> [@simster](#): > > considered and dismissed - he chose to FLOOD THE PLANET becuase he didn’t like his creation - he will again choose to destroy most of it @ Armageddon because he doesn’t like the way its going - so - yeah - seems while he ‘could’ just handwave it away - he won’t - because he prefers to torture folks. > > your cherry picked ‘good parts version’ of the bible and god do not match up. > > Thats just ‘reality’. Thats reality in your view; which I understand, your set to think as you do; but I am aware of another reality in the bible, recorded in Psalms 104:5-9 where God also did some " Setting" with the waters of the earth and set them with a boundary that they may not pass. Vs. 9. That they may not cover the earth. This scripture is a key in understanding that the flood was not global, what you call " Cherry Picking", I call a set understanding of things, and not everybody has a same set. That’s just reality. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/68 "2013-09-24T03:28:57Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Not quite. The Chinese had movable-type presses before Gutenberg came along. Their printing press was absolutely NOTHING like Gutenbergs, nor had its ability and range. But I conceed and will rephrase the statement, it was one of the first books printed on a modern press in 1454. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/69 "2013-09-24T03:35:37Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Thats reality in your view; which I understand, your set to think as you do; but I am aware of another reality in the bible, recorded in Psalms 104:5-9 where God also did some " Setting" with the waters of the earth and set them with a boundary that they may not pass. Vs. 9. That they may not cover the earth. This scripture is a key in understanding that the flood was not global, what you call " Cherry Picking", I call a set understanding of things, and not everybody has a same set. > > That’s just reality. I see - you have your ‘special’ reality. You have some ‘special connection’ that allows you to see beyond ‘those christians’ - tell me - how did you come upon this ‘power’ ? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/70 "2013-09-24T03:50:48Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I see - you have your ‘special’ reality. You have some ‘special connection’ that allows you to see beyond ‘those christians’ - tell me - how did you come upon this ‘power’ ? You call it special in your sarcasm, I call it reading in mine. I can read; if you think that to be special, then I think your right; if you think it to be some kind of slur on me, as if I said I was special, for some " Spiritual" reason then your just another mouth that looks to discredit who disagrees with you. I am not spiritual, I do not have Gods Spirit; I am not a Christian, and I am not one of your common meetings with a quasi puffed up believer in God. I can read; and will show you more of what I am reading. Not so that you can learn, but that you can relate somewhat to what I am screaming. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/71 "2013-09-24T04:13:39Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > You call it special in your sarcasm, I call it reading in mine. I can read; if you think that to be special, then I think your right; if you think it to be some kind of slur on me, as if I said I was special, for some " Spiritual" reason then your just another mouth that looks to discredit who disagrees with you. I am not spiritual, I do not have Gods Spirit; I am not a Christian, and I am not one of your common meetings with a quasi puffed up believer in God. > > I can read; and will show you more of what I am reading. Not so that you can learn, but that you can relate somewhat to what I am screaming. I don’t seek to ‘discredit’ - but you are on a public message board - devoted to ‘fighting ignorance’ in the ‘debate’ area - what exactly did you expect? I am an atheist - I see the bible as a myth - its been elevated by man/religion - you are no different (either in your viewpoints or your ‘reading’) - you are the one that stated you are ’ aware of another reality in the bible’ - I am only aware of one reality - you know - the real reality. So - you believe teh bible, you believe in god, you feel you have a ‘special view’ of the bible (well, the good parts version) - but you are not religious, you are not here to convert anyone, you don’t want me to learn, yet you want to ‘share the stuff you are screaming’… IOW - you make no sense whatsoever - worse part - you contradict yourself with each post you make. I simply asked for how you came accross this ‘other reality in the bible’ that is ‘not spiritual’… Share away - but don’t expect us to just go “oh wow - never heard that one before”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/72 "2013-09-24T04:27:28Z")
As a Christian, I have no use for the doctrine of eternal damnation. Being Christian for me is about feeding the poor and healing the sick. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/73 "2013-09-24T04:37:55Z")
[QUOTE=simster;16692682. IOW - you make no sense whatsoever - worse part - you contradict yourself with each post you make. ".[/QUOTE] Well my suggestion to you, is to stop reading my posts. I don’t read peoples post who make no sense to me. Peace on your journey. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/74 "2013-09-24T05:23:56Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Well yes your correct, I do mean manuscripts. And I disagree with how Jesus has been translated by these religious groups. Jesus mentions hell 16 times total, 11 of those times he meant " Geenna", the Valley of hinnom. 5 of those times he meant the Grave. That is how I view it in scripture. The Old Testament mentions hell 31 times, each time it meant " Sheol", the Hebrew for the Grave. And absolutely nowhere in the Old Testament is anyone ever threatened with eternal hell as a punishment for sin; nowhere. If such an astonishing punishment were true, surely God would warn those people of it; he did not! > > The New Testament mentions hell even less, 23 times total; 12 of those times it was Geenna, the physical valley of Hinnom. 10 times it was Hades, or the Grave. Only one time, in 2 Pet. 2:4 did it mean " Tartaros", the Greek for hell which can mean eternal torment, and that was for demons, not humans. But, how do you explain away the Book of Revelation and its Lake of Fire? (Except by dismissing the book as non-canonical, as Martin Luther was tempted to do, and indeed one is tempted to think that John of Patmos had got hold of some funny mushrooms or some ergot-infected rye bread.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/75 "2013-09-24T05:25:01Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t read peoples post who make no sense to me. That’s your **problem,** then. You should. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/76 "2013-09-24T05:26:06Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > As a Christian, I have no use for the doctrine of eternal damnation. Being Christian for me is about feeding the poor and healing the sick. Then what makes Christianity any better than Buddhism?! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/77 "2013-09-24T05:28:05Z")
Oh, and, FTR: Down Christ! Hail the Goddess! We all come from the Goddess And to her we shall return Like a drop of rain Flowing to the ocean ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/78 "2013-09-24T06:03:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, and, FTR: Down Christ! Hail the Goddess! > > We all come from the Goddess > And to her we shall return > Like a drop of rain > Flowing to the ocean [jesus _was_ a goddess](http://www.alternet.org/story/155118/was_jesus_gay_probably) ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/79 "2013-09-24T11:34:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, how do you explain away the Book of Revelation and its Lake of Fire? (Except by dismissing the book as non-canonical, as Martin Luther was tempted to do, and indeed one is tempted to think that John of Patmos had got hold of some funny mushrooms or some ergot-infected rye bread.) I don’t view the Lake of Fire as the Christian hell, and in my view, any scripture in the bible that places humans into the lake of fire forever as a punishment, is a fraud and was put there during translations. And I don’t explain away things, I explain my views and beliefs. The Lake of Fire exist, but it was not created for humans, which is written in scriptures just as plain as day. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/80 "2013-09-24T11:35:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That’s your **problem,** then. You should. That’s not a problem, its my way of being which I enjoy. Its a benefit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=5)