# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/921 "2013-10-01T15:48:07Z")
I can’t prove God to an Atheist, if I could I would be the most famous man in the world. I can’t shift that pendalem; no way! And I am not trying to swing anyones views one way or another. I started this thread on the topic of hell and it has taken a life of its own. And topics of its own; and it has me curious; if your not interested in God, then why are you so interested? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/922 "2013-10-01T15:54:16Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I am doing my best. That’s all I can do; I am arguing against more than 10 different people every day and more, I know I stand alone in my views, and I express them as best I know how. I know the thread will eventually be closed, and I hold no grudge about that destiny. Because _You Walk Alone_. How dramatic. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/923 "2013-10-01T15:56:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because _You Walk Alone_. > How dramatic. I don’t curse at others choice of beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/924 "2013-10-01T16:04:27Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t curse at others choice of beliefs. And I don’t use a book supposedly corrupted by demons as a reliable history book. Your religion doesn’t bother me much-it is your religion’s total lack of internal consistency that bugs me so much. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/925 "2013-10-01T16:09:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And I don’t use a book supposedly corrupted by demons as a reliable history book. Your religion doesn’t bother me much-it is your religion’s total lack of internal consistency that bugs me so much. I don’t have a religion, and you can’t give me one. What I don’t understand about you is this; we debated for more than a week, back and forth, and that was fine; I am not Atheist, you are not Theist; then you decided to throw cursing into the debate; I don’t understand that, what did it accomplish? I don’t let Atheism get me so mad that I have to curse it out! In my view, that is a total lack of respect. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/926 "2013-10-01T16:20:26Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t have a religion, and you can’t give me one. What I don’t understand about you is this; we debated for more than a week, back and forth, and that was fine; I am not Atheist, you are not Theist; then you decided to throw cursing into the debate; I don’t understand that, what did it accomplish? I don’t let Atheism get me so mad that I have to curse it out! In my view, that is a total lack of respect. You hve a religion - it has a membership of one - you. You use the same ‘resource’ as many other religions, but you ‘walk alone’. He did not ‘curse’ anything - he used descriptive language to desribe his view - sometimes that is required. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/927 "2013-10-01T16:22:13Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t have a religion, and you can’t give me one. What I don’t understand about you is this; we debated for more than a week, back and forth, and that was fine; I am not Atheist, you are not Theist; then you decided to throw cursing into the debate; I don’t understand that, what did it accomplish? I don’t let Atheism get me so mad that I have to curse it out! In my view, that is a total lack of respect. [You have a religion.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion)edited to add: When you can get dictionaries to accept your bizarre definitions I will start accepting them. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/928 "2013-10-01T16:32:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [You have a religion.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion)edited to add: When you can get dictionaries to accept your bizarre definitions I will start accepting them. Good luck with that. I can go by your definitions; I don’t worship God I don’t serve him I don’t have a personal set of practices and my beliefs are changing every year. By YOUR listed definitions that YOU just gave, I am not religious. That’s because YOU think all Theist are naturally religious. I dislike many of the same things you dislike about religion. I disagree with many of the things you disagree with in religion. But I don’t tell you your some kind of Theist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/929 "2013-10-01T16:39:26Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I can go by your definitions; > > I don’t worship God > I don’t serve him > I don’t have a personal set of practices and my beliefs are changing every year. > > By YOUR listed definitions that YOU just gave, I am not religious. That’s because YOU think all Theist are naturally religious. I dislike many of the same things you dislike about religion. I disagree with many of the things you disagree with in religion. But I don’t tell you your some kind of Theist. “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.” ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/930 "2013-10-01T16:40:15Z")
> [@simster](#): > > You hve a religion - it has a membership of one - you. You use the same ‘resource’ as many other religions, but you ‘walk alone’. > > He did not ‘curse’ anything - he used descriptive language to desribe his view - sometimes that is required. Religion is mans effort to reach God, in my belief, God has to reach you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/931 "2013-10-01T16:41:11Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Religion is mans effort to reach God, in my belief, God has to reach you. Where did you get that definition? Why does your definition of religion deny the existence of any god but your own? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/932 "2013-10-01T16:48:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where did you get that definition? > Why does your definition of religion deny the existence of any god but your own? That is my own definition; I like going by my own consciousness, and don’t always look for what somebodyelse has said to define terms. And I don’t have a God of my own. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/933 "2013-10-01T16:48:30Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Religion is mans effort to reach God, in my belief, God has to reach you. > [@](#): > > **re·li·gion** > noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ > > : the belief in a god or in a group of gods > > : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods > > : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group You definitely fit the first and third meaning - I’ll give you a buy on the middle definition. You have a ‘religion’ - you have a belief in God - its clearly very important to you. This does not mean that you are a member of ‘a religion’ (as in the organized/groupthink/cultural aspect of it). ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/934 "2013-10-01T16:53:39Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > That is my own definition; I like going by my own consciousness, and don’t always look for what somebodyelse has said to define terms. > > And I don’t have a God of my own. we had someone else here a while back that liked to make up his own definitions - caused a lot of chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/935 "2013-10-01T16:55:02Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > That is my own definition; I like going by my own consciousness, and don’t always look for what somebodyelse has said to define terms. Post #929. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/936 "2013-10-01T17:03:04Z")
> [@simster](#): > > we had someone else here a while back that liked to make up his own definitions - caused a lot of chaos. Lets be reasonable, one of my favorite books is a dictionary; yes I create my own terms " Sometimes", but the vast majority of the time I go by established terms. But see here, every single word I use is under scrutiny, and everyone is constantly searching for a day light of error in anything I say; and thats fine; I see absolutely nothing wrong with creating a term of your own; I have done it for years; and I like doing it. Like " Scarcasm", meaning using sarcasm to insult people; I made that up years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/937 "2013-10-01T17:07:11Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Lets be reasonable, one of my favorite books is a dictionary; yes I create my own terms " Sometimes", but the vast majority of the time I go by established terms. But see here, every single word I use is under scrutiny, and everyone is constantly searching for a day light of error in anything I say; and thats fine; I see absolutely nothing wrong with creating a term of your own; I have done it for years; and I like doing it. > > Like " Scarcasm", meaning using sarcasm to insult people; I made that up years ago. You can make up whatever words you want…although it would be polite to let other people know what you mean when you say them. What we are obviously objecting to here is your habit of adding unestablished definitions to already existing words and demanding that we abide by your definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/938 "2013-10-01T17:11:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can make up whatever words you want…although it would be polite to let other people know what you mean when you say them. What we are obviously objecting to here is your habit of adding unestablished definitions to already existing words and demanding that we abide by your definitions. I have NEVER demanded that anyone here or anywhelse abide by my definitions; where have I done such a thing? Show me that post#. I get accused here every day of saying things I have not said, and when I ask the people to produce me saying it, they can’t, but the accusations persist. Why don’t you show me anywhere I have falsely accused anyone? Politely do that. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/939 "2013-10-01T17:13:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Lets be reasonable, one of my favorite books is a dictionary; yes I create my own terms " Sometimes", but the vast majority of the time I go by established terms. But see here, every single word I use is under scrutiny, and everyone is constantly searching for a day light of error in anything I say; and thats fine; I see absolutely nothing wrong with creating a term of your own; I have done it for years; and I like doing it. > > Like " Scarcasm", meaning using sarcasm to insult people; I made that up years ago. When you are discussing things with the members of your congregation - thats all well and good - when your trying to have a debate in a public forum, it only causes confusion and does not help to further the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/940 "2013-10-01T17:15:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I have NEVER demanded that anyone here or anywhelse abide by my definitions; where have I done such a thing? Show me that post#. I get accused here every day of saying things I have not said, and when I ask the people to produce me saying it, they can’t, but the accusations persist. > > Why don’t you show me anywhere I have falsely accused anyone? Politely do that. “I have no religion” \ “I don’t use that definition”. In order to accept your premise (that you dont have religion) - we are forced to accept your definiton - which is not the correct definition. You could say you are not a member of ‘a religion’ - and your meaning would be clearer - you could say that you find ‘religion to be despicable’ - and your meaning would be clearer - but otherwise - you seem to like to argue over nits instead of actually debating the subject at hand. Its frustrating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=48)