# The strange concept of eternal hell suffering. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528 "2013-09-23T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/961 "2013-10-01T18:53:56Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I like this cite as well; > [http://www.treehugger.com/](http://www.treehugger.com/) What the hell does that cite have to do with the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/962 "2013-10-01T19:01:13Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Would you like me to do Proteins? > > [Did God create life? Ask a protein](http://creation.com/did-god-create-life-ask-a-protein) I didn’t choose proteins because a biologist can do it more justice than I can. But that article is full of crap. First, no body claims that life forms just floating in the ocean any more. They kind of admit that, but don’t mention what current theories say. They propose certain sites with enough energy and propinquity for proteins to form. Second, almost all of their examples are of highly evolved structures. They have no bearing on the origins of life. Third, computer modeling of folding is pointless. For a better example, to figure out how fast a ball dropped from 10,000 feet is moving at 5,000 feet you’d have to solve some fairly simple equations and some fairly complex ones to take air resistance and wind vectors into account. Yet the ball knows how fast it is moving without any of these. Amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/963 "2013-10-01T19:02:03Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I like this cite as well; > [http://www.treehugger.com/](http://www.treehugger.com/) Uhmm, there’s a difference between cite and site. A site is a web-site, a cite is usually a quote that has some explanatory value or gives evidence concerning your opinion/argument. You cite a source. A cite can be on a site, only rarely is the site so small or so comprehensive that the whole site can be a cite. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/964 "2013-10-01T19:06:29Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Uhmm, there’s a difference between cite and site. > > A site is a web-site, a cite is usually a quote that has some explanatory value or gives evidence concerning your opinion/argument. You cite a source. > > A cite can be on a site, only rarely is the site so small or so comprehensive that the whole site can be a cite. i’ve lost sight! ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/965 "2013-10-01T19:07:24Z")
[quote=“Voyager, post:959, topic:669528”] I very much doubt anyone would object to two or three items in depth. However, I’m happy to oblige. Here are three Kalam Cosomological argument I like the Kalam argument because it suggest that the Universe has a beginning in time, which I agree with. It is a first cause argument, what we call " Prime Mover", or motion is caused by motion and everything that exist has a cause for its existence, and we see the first cause as God. God created the first motion , the first matter put in motion, and the first energy to move that matter. We do not believe these created themselves and we " Argue " for that; Which is part of what Kalam means; knowledge through debate and argument. Words, discourse and discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/966 "2013-10-01T19:08:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What the hell does that cite have to do with the conversation? Its a science site. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/967 "2013-10-01T19:12:22Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Its a science site. And for what claim of yours are you using it? I don’t recall “tree huggers” being brought up in this thread before. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/968 "2013-10-01T19:15:01Z")
[quote=“Mickiel, post:965, topic:669528”] > [@Voyager](#): > > I very much doubt anyone would object to two or three items in depth. However, I’m happy to oblige. Here are three > > Kalam Cosomological argument > > I like the Kalam argument because it suggest that the Universe has a beginning in time, which I agree with. It is a first cause argument, what we call " Prime Mover", or motion is caused by motion and everything that exist has a cause for its existence, **and we see the first cause as God**. (bolding mine)No, we don’t, because you have yet to show that step in your reasoning yet-you just leap to that conclusion every time. Fill in that step between “it happened” and “God did it”. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/969 "2013-10-01T19:19:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > (bolding mine)No, we don’t, because you have yet to show that step in your reasoning yet-you just leap to that conclusion every time. Fill in that step between “it happened” and “God did it”. That is one problem with this argument. The other is that, if you insist that everything must have a cause, then what caused God? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/970 "2013-10-01T19:25:06Z")
[quote=“Czarcasm, post:968, topic:669528”] > [@Mickiel](#): > > (bolding mine)No, we don’t, because you have yet to show that step in your reasoning yet-you just leap to that conclusion every time. Fill in that step between “it happened” and “God did it”. Gladly; Genesis 1:1 " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." This was the creation of our universe and beyond. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/971 "2013-10-01T19:26:06Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > That is one problem with this argument. > The other is that, if you insist that everything must have a cause, then what caused God? God caused God. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/972 "2013-10-01T19:30:10Z")
[quote=“Mickiel, post:970, topic:669528”] > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Gladly; Genesis 1:1 " In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." This was the creation of our universe and beyond. Do you understand the concept of “circular reasoning”? You cannot use the Bible to prove itself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/973 "2013-10-01T19:31:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > God caused God. The universe caused the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/974 "2013-10-01T19:40:00Z")
The fossil record; > **[What Does the Fossil Record Show?](https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/creation-or-evolution-does-it-really-matter-what-you-believe/what-does-the-fossil-record-show)** > > Darwin staked the credibility of his theory on discoveries he was sure would be found in the fossil record. After a century and a half of exploration and discoveries, does that record support his theory or contradict it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/975 "2013-10-01T19:45:02Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > The fossil record; > > [http://www.ucg.org/booklet/creation-or-evolution-does-it-really-matter-what-you-believe/what-does-fossil-record-show/](http://www.ucg.org/booklet/creation-or-evolution-does-it-really-matter-what-you-believe/what-does-fossil-record-show/) Right off the bat, they screw it up. > [@](#): > > Can the theory of evolution be proven? After all, it is called the theory of evolution in acknowledgment of the fact that it is not a confirmed scientific law. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/976 "2013-10-01T19:47:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Right off the bat, they screw it up. I don’t agree with all their views, but I agree about the fossil record; I believe in evolution, I just believe God created it, it did not create itself; these websites are all I have to offer besides my views; [http://www.whybelieveingod.net/thefossilrecord.htm](http://www.whybelieveingod.net/thefossilrecord.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/977 "2013-10-01T19:50:39Z")
An interesting interview with a professor; [http://christianevidence.org/blog/entry/for\_the\_fossil\_record](http://christianevidence.org/blog/entry/for_the_fossil_record) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/978 "2013-10-01T19:50:42Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I don’t agree with all their views, but I agree about the fossil record; I believe in evolution, I just believe God created it, it did not create itself; these websites are all I have to offer besides my views; > > [http://www.whybelieveingod.net/thefossilrecord.htm](http://www.whybelieveingod.net/thefossilrecord.htm) And once again, you fail to actually back up your claim with evidence. _Why_ do you believe that? What evidence is there to link evolution to your god? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/979 "2013-10-01T19:54:27Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > An interesting interview with a professor; > > [For the (fossil) record – Christian Evidence](http://christianevidence.org/blog/entry/for_the_fossil_record) What part of that link provides evidence that God is responsible for evolution? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528/980 "2013-10-01T19:55:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And once again, you fail to actually back up your claim with evidence. _Why_ do you believe that? What evidence is there to link evolution to your god? You are the evidence; who put a cap on your evolution? Why did the human body stop evolving? Why is just our consciousness evolving? The abrupt cesation of our physical evolution is evidence of a creator stopping it, because evolution does not have an independant consciousness to slow or stop itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-strange-concept-of-eternal-hell-suffering/669528.md?page=50)