# The stuff in peppers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854 "2003-04-02T01:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/1 "2003-04-02T01:53:57Z")
What makes peppers hot? I have seen some scale before that rates peppers by their hotness. What is measured (other than how much they make your eyes water) is it a single chemical that makes all peppers spicy? Or a variety of chemicals with similar properties? ---
**Author:** ![Macka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Macka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macka)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/2 "2003-04-02T02:08:17Z")
I believe it is called capsacin (cap-say-sin) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/3 "2003-04-02T02:10:23Z")
Specifically, oleoresin capsaicin, also used in pepper spray and various pain management preparations. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/4 "2003-04-02T02:12:09Z")
The **Scoville Scale** is the name of the measurement used to compare relative pungency of peppers. A scientician will be along shortly to tell us all how Scoville scores are determined. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/5 "2003-04-02T02:13:20Z")
It’s a family of chemicals, called capsaicins (cap say ih sin), the most important of which is capsaicin. The heat scale is actually measured by eating pureéd peppers, however (I understand that the scale is how many sprays of sugar water it takes to cool off the mouth, but one would think that some sort of dilution scheme would be more accurate and less cruel). ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/6 "2003-04-02T02:14:57Z")
Oh and the measurement scale is called the Scoville scale which is essentially a measurement of the percentage of capsaicin in a pepper. For reference, pure capsaicin is 16,000,000 Scoville units. The very hottest pepper is the “Red Savina” Habanero, at 350,000 Scoville units! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/7 "2003-04-02T02:17:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > \*\*It’s a family of chemicals, called capsaicins (cap say ih sin), the most important of which is capsaicin. The heat scale is actually measured by eating pureéd peppers, however (I understand that the scale is how many sprays of sugar water it takes to cool off the mouth, but one would think that some sort of dilution scheme would be more accurate and less cruel). \*\* It is diluted: > [@](#): > > Measuring by Scoville Units is very subjective. To achieve a rating, it takes three out of five people to taste the heat in a diluted solution of alcohol and sugar water. The ratio of dilution is the Scoville Unit. For example, the Chiltepin is usually detected by 60 percent of the testers when diluted at a ratio of 1 part to 50,000 parts solution (1:50,000 and up to 1:100,000). From [this article.](http://www.lilesnet.com/hobbies/cooking/hottest_pepper.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/8 "2003-04-02T02:25:58Z")
Ah. My source lied. I have assayed capsaicin by HPLC, which is more reliable than the taste test, but I’m sure Scoville’s method was more fun. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/9 "2003-04-02T02:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > \*\*Ah. My source lied. I have assayed capsaicin by HPLC, which is more reliable than the taste test, but I’m sure Scoville’s method was more fun. \*\* Well there is another scale, more scientific than the Scoville Scale, it turns out. HPLC is more reliable, but not as popular with the Unwashed Masses who want their Scovilles. [To wit](http://www.tabasco.com/html/historian_scoville_how.html), > [@](#): > > Scoville’s name has since become closely associated with the measure of pungency, but the oral test is now being slowly replaced by a modern machine (High Pressure Liquid Chromatograph) that is as sensitive as the human tongue. > > One problem with Scoville’s test is that no two tongues ever agreed, so the panelists’ estimates had to be averaged. Another problem was that the number of tests a panelist could do in a day was limited. Because the tongue would temporarily get used to a given level of pungency, it had to be given rest to cool down before resuming the task. In an eight hour period, no more than 6 samples could be run through the panel. The machine has now replaced the human testing panel. Thirty samples can now be tested within 8 hours, and accuracy is not a concern. And because the cost of a pepper is directly related to the pepper’s heat, there is less bargaining now that the heat can be tested with predictability. > > The American Spice Trade Association, an industry trade group, is a strong proponent of the machine. And the HPLC machine (High Pressure Liquid Chromatograph) measurements are expressed in ASTA units, the acronym of the trade group. But Scoville’s name has become so well established that the association has had as much success in making people adopt the scale as the US has in adopting the metric system. The companies that do employ the modern instrument use a conversion scale to express ASTA units in familiar Scoville units. Such is Scoville’s legacy. ---
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/10 "2003-04-02T03:17:46Z")
Thanks, I knew I had seen that before. I remembered that Habineros were rated as the worlds hottest, but as an avid pepper and spicy food eater, I SWEAR the Thai food I had for dinner tonight was much hotter than any habinero I ever tasted. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/11 "2003-04-02T03:38:20Z")
Thai food contains a blend of spices that contribute several different flavor chemicals. My guess is that they stimulate different receptors, and thus have more of a cumulative effect than “Johnny One-note” capsaicin. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/12 "2003-04-02T03:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mipiace \* > \*\*Thanks, I knew I had seen that before. I remembered that Habineros were rated as the worlds hottest, but as an avid pepper and spicy food eater, I SWEAR the Thai food I had for dinner tonight was much hotter than any habinero I ever tasted. \*\* This [site](http://www.ecoseeds.com/Pepper.worlds.hottest.html) claims to have a pepper hotter than the habinero, and IIRC, India is said to have developed an insanely hot pepper for use in riot control. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/13 "2003-04-02T03:56:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*…and IIRC, India is said to have developed an insanely hot pepper for use in riot control. \*\* I don’t know how any pepper can be hotter than pure capsaicin itself. I gotta call BS on that one. No offense to your memory. ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/14 "2003-04-02T04:05:55Z")
An awesome Staff Report that will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about this subject: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mchili.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mchili.html) Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![iamamoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b4bc9f/32.png) [@iamamoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamamoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/15 "2003-04-02T04:19:10Z")
Not that anybody might care, but a practical use of capsaicins is their addition to poultry feed. Birds, it seems, are highly tolerant to the hot spice effect of capsaicin ingestion. Well, as least as compared to rodents. Considering the fact that poultry is the major/cheapest source of animal protein in the american diet, capsaicin addition to feed is a way to combat feed losses due to rodents. The less that poultry producers have to spend on feed by capsaicin addition means the less spent on rodent losses. Which means less pesticides against rodents and cheaper protein for poor people who use chicken as their primary protein source in their diet. And cleaner animal protein for any that eat poultry. This based on just the fact that rats and mice don’t like hot stuff, but birds don’t care. Now, if any animal rights advocates that disagree with poultry consumpsion have a proplem with capsaicin addition to feed, I would suggest a Great Debates Forum. Not to debate about whether mammals verus birds, are better food sources, but, birds have greater response to capsaicin. I could provide a lot of scientific literature, but would refer to “Sturkie’s Avian Physiology: 4th Edition relevant chapters, since I can’t remember off the top of my head”. But a quick check of the index should do. ---
**Author:** ![iamamoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b4bc9f/32.png) [@iamamoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamamoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/16 "2003-04-02T04:22:02Z")
Ouch! “but, birds have greater response to capsaicin” should have read: “but, birds have greater tolerance to capsaicin” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/17 "2003-04-02T04:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*I don’t know how any pepper can be hotter than pure capsaicin itself. I gotta call BS on that one. No offense to your memory. \*\* Dunno, but here’s the [link](http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1081626) to the NPR story on it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/18 "2003-04-02T04:40:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*Dunno, but here’s the [link](http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1081626) to the NPR story on it. \*\* Ok, I have no problem with that story. I have absolutely no doubt a pepper could be bred that is hotter than any Habenaro. The point I was making was in regard to riot control; the “hotness” of the pepper the capsaicin comes from is irrelevant to its potency. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/19 "2003-04-02T04:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Ok, I have no problem with that story. I have absolutely no doubt a pepper could be bred that is hotter than any Habenaro. The point I was making was in regard to riot control; the “hotness” of the pepper the capsaicin comes from is irrelevant to its potency. \*\* Ah, but a pepper plant with a higher concentration of capsaicin would be cheaper to process than peppers with a lower level of capsaicin, since you’d need fewer of them to get the desired amount. And _that_ may be the reason why the Indian military developed the peppers. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/20 "2003-04-02T05:06:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Capsaicin is available in **synthetic** or natural form. Law enforcement agencies should be aware of synthetic analogs that are used in order to increase the heat factor in Capsicum extracts, as well as synthetic or imitation Oleoresin Capsicums. From [this article](http://www.zarc.com/english/cap-stun/tech_info/oc/capsaicinoids.html). Yes, the article states that synthetic capsaicinoids can be damaging, but nevertheless I’d bet a poor country like India would favor cost over risk. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854.md?page=2)