# The stuff in peppers **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 2, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854 "2003-04-02T01:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/21 "2003-04-02T05:18:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*From [this article](http://www.zarc.com/english/cap-stun/tech_info/oc/capsaicinoids.html). > > Yes, the article states that synthetic capsaicinoids can be damaging, but nevertheless I’d bet a poor country like India would favor cost over risk. \*\* The article mentions nothing about the costs of the synthetics vs. the natural variety, so what’s your point? It might be cheaper for India to develop the plants than build the necessary infrastructure to manufacture the synthetics. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/22 "2003-04-02T05:22:40Z")
From that same article: > [@](#): > > Be aware of synthetic analogues (chemicals) such as n-vanillyl octanamide used to increase the heat factor in Capsicum extracts **to reduce production costs**. that good enough for you? (Bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/23 "2003-04-02T05:31:33Z")
And just as another little factoid to throw into the mix - an overdose of capsaicin can kill you quite handily. I don’t actually know how much an overdose is, but I believe it’s not a whole heck of a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/24 "2003-04-02T05:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*From that same article: > that good enough for you? > > (Bolding mine) \*\* Nope. Because essentially what that’s talking about is using a chemical to increase the concentration in a **natural** extract. That’s not talking about a **fully synthetic** capsasin, nor does that eliminate the _possibility_ that India developed the pepper for riot control. The pepper, in combination _with_ n-vanillyl octanamide, would, _perhaps_, have a lower cost to produce, than using habineros alone. Until you can post a cite which states that a _pure synthetic_ capsasin is cheaper and more powerful to produce, then it seems likely to me that the story’s accurate. Besides, why would the Indian military announce that it had developed a natural pepper when it hadn’t? Why not simply state that they’d developed a new synthetic version? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/25 "2003-04-02T05:55:52Z")
I concede at this time. [unprintable obscenity] ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/26 "2003-04-02T07:43:20Z")
> [@](#): > > And just as another little factoid to throw into the mix - an overdose of capsaicin can kill you quite handily. > > I don’t actually know how much an overdose is, but I believe it’s not a whole heck of a lot. alice\_in\_wonderland, can you share the source of that little factoid? Peppers are popular (“a million Mexicans drink it”) “Comprehensive nutritional studies have not shown any adverse effects of chile or capsaicinoids even at ten times the maximum use levels…” V.S. Govindarajan, Capsicum–Production, Technology, Chemistry and Quality. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/27 "2003-04-02T13:38:30Z")
Toxicity data from [capsaicin MSDS](http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:-dt3DrAY-UAC:www.biomol.com/store/MSDS_PDFs/EI125.pdf+capsaicin+msds+ld50&hl=en&ie=UTF-8): ```auto I.P. LD50: Rat : 9500µg/kg Mouse : 6500 µg/kg Rabbit : >50mg/kg Oral LD50: Mouse : 47200µg/kg ``` Looks like eating ~5 grams of pure capsacin would do for a person. The percent capsaicin figures for peppers are probably based on dry weight, and plants are typically ~70% water, so you’d have to eat a lot of _very_ hot peppers to die from capsaicin poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/28 "2003-04-02T13:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > The lethal toxic doses of capsaicin, measured in milligrams per kilogram of animal weight ranged from a mere .56 milligrams when administered intravenously, to 190 milligrams when consumed, to 512 milligrams when applied topically… > \ > If humans are about as sensitive as mice, the acute fatal toxicity dose for a 150 pound person would be about thirteen grams of pure, crystalline capsaicinoids, which frankly, sounds high to us. We think that less than that would be lethal. From [this article](http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/cap_od7.html). ---
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/29 "2003-04-02T14:47:50Z")
I think I mi8ght have come close to ingesting that once or twice. Too much casicin and your windpipe will close up! (Not scientific fact - just working knowledge that you do not breathe when eating really hot food) ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/30 "2003-04-02T15:40:20Z")
Some cook on tv said that capsaicin’s greatest concentration is contained in the white pith & seeds in the middle of the pepper & if you take those out, you’re taking most of the capsaicins out, making the pepper cooler. Well, it would be nice to know where the capsaicins are in a pepper. ---
**Author:** ![critter42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@critter42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/critter42)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/31 "2003-04-02T16:12:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*Some cook on tv said that capsaicin’s greatest concentration is contained in the white pith & seeds in the middle of the pepper & if you take those out, you’re taking most of the capsaicins out, making the pepper cooler. Well, it would be nice to know where the capsaicins are in a pepper. \*\* Heh - on Emeril Live! last week sometime, he said the exact opposite - that the greatest heat is in the skin/rind and that the idea that the hottest part is the seeds/pith is a UL. critter42 ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/32 "2003-04-02T16:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by critter42 \* > \*\*Heh - on Emeril Live! last week sometime, he said the exact opposite - that the greatest heat is in the skin/rind and that the idea that the hottest part is the seeds/pith is a UL. > > critter42 \*\* I would have to guess that if there’s any truth to this, it would be that it would depend on _what kind_ of pepper. I know I’ve eaten peppers (specifically some kind of little red/black pepper in Asian food) where the skin is just gross, and if you squeeze the seeds and juice out and eat them, it’s greeeeeaaaaaat (hot food lover checking in here :D). See also the little red pepper seeds you might put on pizza. I’ve eaten things like serrano, habanero, and jalapenos, though, where it doesn’t seem to matter much what part you eat. ---
**Author:** ![gypsymoth3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@gypsymoth3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gypsymoth3)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/33 "2003-04-02T20:52:02Z")
isn’t there some kind of medicine called capsasin? ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/34 "2003-04-02T23:12:51Z")
Capsaicin is also the active ingredient in Zostrix, a counterirritant cream used to relieve the nerve pain that follows shingles. It’s also used for diabetic peripheral neuropathy. ---
**Author:** ![j.c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@j.c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j.c)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/35 "2003-04-03T03:41:27Z")
QED, the link you posted goes on to quote my source which says it’s not a risk. And the link is a gourmet site. Additionally, your link has this quote: “For example, C.L. Winek conducted a study that was published in Drug and Chemical Toxicology that examined the overdose potential of Tabasco® Sauce. He concluded that a person of average weight would have to consume nearly a half gallon of the sauce to overdose and become unconscious.” Half a gallon of hot sauce merely to pass out? That’s more in keeping with Squink’s math (Thanks, Squink.) and sounds like alice\_in\_wonderland’s assertion of “not a whole heck of a lot” is off base. Capsaicin cream warning lables say you should call poison control if it’s ingested, but not with big red flags or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/36 "2003-04-03T03:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j.c. \* > \*\*QED, the link you posted goes on to quote my source which says it’s not a risk. And the link is a gourmet site. > > Additionally, your link has this quote: > > “For example, C.L. Winek conducted a study that was published in Drug and Chemical Toxicology that examined the overdose potential of Tabasco® Sauce. He concluded that a person of average weight would have to consume nearly a half gallon of the sauce to overdose and become unconscious.” > > Half a gallon of hot sauce merely to pass out? That’s more in keeping with Squink’s math (Thanks, Squink.) and sounds like alice\_in\_wonderland’s assertion of “not a whole heck of a lot” is off base. > > Capsaicin cream warning lables say you should call poison control if it’s ingested, but not with big red flags or anything. \*\* Tabasco sauce and pure capsaicin are two different beasts entirely. My quote from that site said that the information they were presented with suggested that about 13 grams of pure capsaicin crystals would kill an average human, but that they thought that value was _too high_. This jibes nicely with **squink** ’s statement from the MSDS that about 5 grams would do it. Please read more carefully before making assertions. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/37 "2003-04-03T06:57:39Z")
Well, sadly my source is one of the profs I work for - and he didn’t give it to me in writing. As to amount. I said not a whole heck of a lot. This does not mean 1 pepper seed. It also doesn’t mean 10 lbs of peppers. My understanding is that it would be humanly possible (although probably not much fun) to eat enough of the stuff to kill you from the capsaicin as opposed to other causes - over eating or whatever. I can’t do better than that, although it looks like **QED** and **squink** have provided some reasonable cites. Thanks guys. If you absolutly insist, I will pin the man down tomorrow and demand info. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/38 "2003-04-04T18:42:28Z")
The hottest, most insanely incendiary peppers contain about 1% capsaicin; one pound of these inbred wonders would give you the LD-50. It’s conceivable that some significant fraction of the population would die from a far smaller portion. However, no sane person eats anything like those – even the insane probably won’t eat anything a tenth that hot. It would take over 30 pounds of the hottest jalapeños to deliver 5 grams of capsaicin. All of the above, of course, is subject to the limitations and linearity of the Scoville scale. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/39 "2003-04-04T21:41:42Z")
Ok. I went to my source. Much discussion insued. There’s now a rather long-winded debate going on here. It’s among people who have brains and education coming out their wazoos. I believe this means the debate will never be over. They’ve already sent out for pizza twice. So. Let me re-word my original statement. Capsaicin may potentially kill you; however, some belive that your receptors would shut down in a self-defence mechanisim so it wouldn’t kill you. Some believe that even with the shut-down receptors you’d still be a dead duck, and still others feel that the capsaicin, in conjuction with other assorted items would really be what does you in. In any case, just forget I said anything. My head is starting to hurt. ---
**Author:** ![mipiace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@mipiace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipiace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854/40 "2003-04-04T21:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > \*\*The hottest, most insanely incendiary peppers contain about 1% capsaicin; one pound of these inbred wonders would give you the LD-50. It’s conceivable that some significant fraction of the population would die from a far smaller portion. > > However, no sane person eats anything like those – even the insane probably won’t eat anything a tenth that hot. It would take over 30 pounds of the hottest jalapeños to deliver 5 grams of capsaicin. > > All of the above, of course, is subject to the limitations and linearity of the Scoville scale. \*\* Reminds me of one Spring Break from my college dats. jalapeno contest washed down with tequila. If the peppers don’t kill you, you will forget that they hurt very quickly…until tomorrow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stuff-in-peppers/165854.md?page=1)