# The stupid - it burns! (Isil infiltrating u.s.-bound refugees) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050 "2015-11-20T04:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/21 "2015-11-20T15:58:15Z")
There are a lot of poor people out there. It’s a lot easier to get them to sign up if you a least pretend to offer them hope. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/22 "2015-11-20T16:11:45Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > The purpose of terrorism, let’s not forget, is to _terrorize,_ that is, to instill fear. Judging from the reaction of some Governors, including alleged Presidential candidate Chris Christie, it’s working. I saw this on Facebook: “If your reaction to terrorism is to be terrified, maybe you’re not leadership material.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/23 "2015-11-20T16:12:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Huge difference in risk level. Not remotely comparable. > > Worth noting, BTW, that the second biggest source of terror attacks worldwide, after Islamic extremists, is far-left groups. Totally comparable. BTW, the second biggest source of terrorist attacks **in this country** , after Islamic extremists, is far-right white groups and gun-nuts. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/24 "2015-11-20T16:16:30Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Totally comparable. BTW, the second biggest source of terrorist attacks **in this country** , after Islamic extremists, is far-right white groups and gun-nuts. Is it really only the _second_ biggest? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/25 "2015-11-20T16:17:32Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Ask and you shall [receive](http://www.abc15.com/news/state/border-patrol-detains-6-middle-eastern-men-along-arizona-border). > > Are they terrorists? I don’t know, but I’d bet the odds are more they are than they aren’t. Five of those detained by Border Patrol were Pakistani and one was Afghan. From the article: > [@](#): > > US Customs and Border Protection in a statement said the agents, as a standard procedure “processed the six individuals and checked their identities against numerous law enforcement and national security related databases.” > > CBP said the “records checks revealed no derogatory information about the individuals.” > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Worth noting, BTW, that the second biggest source of terror attacks worldwide, after Islamic extremists, is far-left groups. Can we get a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/26 "2015-11-20T16:22:30Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Bullshit. Big claim, please point to the part of my post which is bullshit > [@](#): > > The accusations of racism and bigotry are made against knee jerk “lock the gates” statements and parodic “tattoo syrian flags on their forheads” suggestions, because that’s what they appeal to. You didn’t read what I said at all did you? You merely got a general feeling that I’m not in complete agreement with you and then extrapolated from there. I said it isn’t racism, bigotry or Islamaphobia to suggest ISIS will try to sneak it’s people through in groups of refugees. Do you agree with that statement or not? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/27 "2015-11-20T16:25:44Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Is it really only the _second_ biggest? Depends on the time span. Right now, probably first. Include the last 20 years, definitely the second. Go back to lynching and it takes the trophy back. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/28 "2015-11-20T16:25:52Z")
> [@](#): > > …I said it isn’t racism, bigotry or Islamaphobia to suggest ISIS will try to sneak it’s people through in groups of refugees… It has comparable qualities, inherent in stupid positions, they share a common factor. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/29 "2015-11-20T16:36:45Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Can we get a cite for that? From the [National Counterterrorism Center: Annex of Statistical Information](http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/195555.htm) (“Perpetrators” section) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/30 "2015-11-20T16:53:43Z")
It is widely considered to be good form to point to the specific part of your citation that you imagine supports your position. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/31 "2015-11-20T16:59:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It is widely considered to be good form to point to the specific part of your citation that you imagine supports your position. The whole point is you waste time digging and finally give up. Probably this: > [@](#): > > The most active of the secular, political, and anarchist groups in 2011 included the FARC (377 attacks), the Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist) (351 attacks), the New People’s Army/Communist Party of the Philippines (NPA-CPP) (102 attacks), and the Kurdistan Worker’s Party (PKK) in Turkey (48 attacks). This is what he imagines constitutes the left in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/32 "2015-11-20T17:01:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > From the [National Counterterrorism Center: Annex of Statistical Information](http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/195555.htm) (“Perpetrators” section) Thanks. This is interesting. I would note that the report identifies 10,283 attacks in 2011. About 5700 were attributed to “Sunni extremists” (comprising 70% of fatalities). The second largest category of perpetrators were “Secular, political, and anarchist groups… conducting 2,283 attacks with 1,926 fatalities”. I presume that attackers across the political spectrum are represented in that category. The report says: > [@](#): > > The most active of the secular, political, and anarchist groups in 2011 included the FARC (377 attacks), the Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist) (351 attacks), the New People’s Army/Communist Party of the Philippines (NPA-CPP) (102 attacks), and the Kurdistan Worker’s Party (PKK) in Turkey (48 attacks). It’s unclear from the summary what groups were responsible for the other ~1400 attacks in the category. So, about 878 attacks out of 10,283 definitively attributed to far left groups. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/33 "2015-11-20T17:02:54Z")
> [@from above citation](#): > > Secular, political, and anarchist groups were the next largest category of perpetrators, conducting 2,283 attacks with 1,926 fatalities, a drop of 5 percent and 9 percent, respectively, from 2010. > > The most active of the secular, political, and anarchist groups in 2011 included the FARC (377 attacks), the Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist) (351 attacks), the New People’s Army/Communist Party of the Philippines (NPA-CPP) (102 attacks), and the Kurdistan Worker’s Party (PKK) in Turkey (48 attacks) Guerrilla Marxist-Leninist, Commie, Commie, leftist militant. Strictly and pedantically, devoid of context, the point’s supported. Just. With **Bayard** ’s adroit caveat about what constitutes the remainder of the “secular, political, and anarchist” violence. . ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/34 "2015-11-20T17:11:23Z")
Perhaps a Paris-style attack could simply be designated a “mass shooting” since those don’t seem to bother Republicans so much. And when they say “But it’s _terrorism_”, remind them that they have typically said, at least in hate-crime legislation debate, that the motivation of an attacker doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/35 "2015-11-20T17:24:28Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Thanks. This is interesting. I would note that the report identifies 10,283 attacks in 2011. About 5700 were attributed to “Sunni extremists” (comprising 70% of fatalities). The second largest category of perpetrators were “Secular, political, and anarchist groups… conducting 2,283 attacks with 1,926 fatalities”. I presume that attackers across the political spectrum are represented in that category. The report says: > It’s unclear from the summary what groups were responsible for the other ~1400 attacks in the category. So, about 878 attacks out of 10,283 definitively attributed to far left groups. I don’t think you can look at 10,283 - you need to subtract out the 5,700 and consider the what could be the biggest category from the remainder. I’m not sure your presumption about “attackers across the political spectrum” being reprepresented is accurate. If you look at the [fuller report](https://fas.org/irp/threat/nctc2011.pdf) (page 11) you’ll see that “Neo-Nazi/Fascist/White Supremacist” is a separate category (with 77 deaths). But I agree that there’s some wriggle room. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/36 "2015-11-20T18:04:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This has gotten to be one of my litmus tests. If you’re one of the “let’s not let any Muslims in” people, you’re a fucking asshole. No ifs, ands, or buts. I am at the point that if you’re one of the "“let’s not let any Muslims in” people, thaen you’re a fucking supporter of ISIS. ISIS does not want us to let refugees in. They specifically have said this. They commit terrorist acts to frighten us into keeping refugees out. They publish propaganda lies about how they infiltrate refugees. If you repeat these lies and cave in to the terrorists desires… then you are a fucking terrorist supporter. You might just as well get your orders directly from the ISIS leadership, and obey everything they tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/37 "2015-11-20T19:35:32Z")
I think there is a concrete effect beyond the abstract “we’re making them hate us”. If we do not take in refugees, an non-zero number of them will remain in refugee camps, where a non-zero number of them will decide to return home rather than stay in the camps, where they will at the very least help Isis by paying taxes to them. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/38 "2015-11-20T20:40:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It has comparable qualities, inherent in stupid positions, they share a common factor. Problem is, if you choose paint people who raise concerns as bigots, racists and “islamaphobes” (a bullshit, non-term anyway) then you can feel justified in just hand-waving away anything they say instead of actually taking the time to consider if there is an issue to deal with. You think that the possibility of ISIS terrorists within the population of Syrian terrorists is a stupid position? Stupid to even consider it? Pointless to screen for it? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/39 "2015-11-20T20:45:38Z")
Yes, it’s pointless to screen for ISIS terrorists within the population of Syrian terrorists. _Both_ groups can be ethically denied refugee status. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/40 "2015-11-20T21:13:05Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Yes, it’s pointless to screen for ISIS terrorists within the population of Syrian terrorists. _Both_ groups can be ethically denied refugee status. Oops, that should of course read “Syrian refugees” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050.md?page=3)