# The stupid - it burns! (Isil infiltrating u.s.-bound refugees) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050 "2015-11-20T04:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/41 "2015-11-20T21:17:57Z")
OK, that’s different. _Of course_ the US should attempt to screen out ISIS and other terrorists from the population of Syrian refugees. But I think the US should permit some large number of Syrians to move to the US. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/42 "2015-11-20T21:18:03Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Oops, that should of course read “Syrian refugees” But you can see why a neutral observer might take that _oopsie_ to be a sign of unconscious bias in your thinking, no? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/43 "2015-11-20T21:31:49Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > But you can see why a neutral observer might take that _oopsie_ to be a sign of unconscious bias in your thinking, no? That would be a particularly lazy and ignorant neutral observer that hadn’t even done me the courtesy of reading my previous posts in this very thread. I’d happily ignore them. Sometimes an typo reveals nothing other than clumsy sentence construction. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/44 "2015-11-20T21:37:08Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, that’s different. _Of course_ the US should attempt to screen out ISIS and other terrorists from the population of Syrian refugees. But I think the US should permit some large number of Syrians to move to the US. Agree completely. The only way we defeat ISIS is to offer those under their thumb the compassion and opportunities that ISIS cannot. That entails risks and we should not be blind to them, it is not racist or bigoted to screen very carefully, it _is_ racist and bigoted (and lacking in compassion) to shut the door completely. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9adbd/32.png) [@Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Time_Hockey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/45 "2015-11-20T21:40:02Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Problem is, if you choose paint people who raise concerns as bigots, racists and “islamaphobes” (a bullshit, non-term anyway) then you can feel justified in just hand-waving away anything they say instead of actually taking the time to consider if there is an issue to deal with. > > You think that the possibility of ISIS terrorists within the population of Syrian terrorists is a stupid position? Stupid to even consider it? Pointless to screen for it? You might want to edit your post now that you’ve noticed your typo. Has anyone here, or the Obama administration for that matter, been saying that refugees shouldn’t be screened? You do know that there is a vetting process for refugee status right? That it takes up to two years? Is that not screening? Getting into the States as a refugee is almost as hard as winning a lottery. Many apply, few are chosen. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9adbd/32.png) [@Old\_Time\_Hockey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Time_Hockey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/46 "2015-11-20T21:48:13Z")
Didn’t see your previous post. We agree that blocking refugees is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/47 "2015-11-20T21:57:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That would be a particularly lazy and ignorant neutral observer that hadn’t even done me the courtesy of reading my previous posts in this very thread. You mean those posts where you continue to elide the actual vetting which applicants are currently subjected to prior to being granted refugee status and entry to the US, or the posts where you don’t address the counterarguments to your assertion that ISIS will “try and smuggle terrorists in with refugees”? Gotta be a reason you’re avoiding facts and arguments that rebut your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/48 "2015-11-20T23:12:01Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You mean those posts where you continue to elide the actual vetting which applicants are currently subjected to prior to being granted refugee status and entry to the US, or the posts where you don’t address the counterarguments to your assertion that ISIS will “try and smuggle terrorists in with refugees”? Gotta be a reason you’re avoiding facts and arguments that rebut your opinion. I see no reason to question whether vetting is done. It is and rightly so. To do so is neither racist nor bigoted. I think I made that fairly clear with the very first post I made. If you have a specific problem with understanding what I’ve posted then by all means quote it and challenge me with a specific question. I’ll be more than happy to elaborate and explain. Something like this…do you think that ISIS will try to smuggle terrorists into western nations under the umbrella of Syrian refugees? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/49 "2015-11-20T23:18:00Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Something like this…do you think that ISIS will try to smuggle terrorists into western nations under the umbrella of Syrian refugees? They won’t try very hard, because it would be exceptionally difficult, with little chance of success. Because it’s so freakin’ obvious, and so easy to prevent. What they WILL do, and ARE doing is lie and propagandize that they really are smuggling terrorists into western nations as refugees. And they will really hope that some complete fucking idiots in the west will buy this garbage and spread the fear for them. Yay! They have some helpful frightened little turds in the west doing their terror job for them! ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/50 "2015-11-20T23:46:36Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I see no reason to question whether vetting is done. It is and rightly so. To do so is neither racist nor bigoted. I think I made that fairly clear with the very first post I made. But you seem to be assuming that vetting is inadequate to the task of screening undesirable applicants, without actually citing any problems with the process. > [@](#): > > If you have a specific problem with understanding what I’ve posted then by all means quote it and challenge me with a specific question. I’ll be more than happy to elaborate and explain. > > Something like this…do you think that ISIS will try to smuggle terrorists into western nations under the umbrella of Syrian refugees? Well, you’ve already stated you do believe that, so it would kind of stupid for me to ask you that. I support the arguments made by the OP and others that it would make no sense for ISIS to pursue that pathway _into the US_, and make not much more sense them to try and do it that way into Europe, where they already have recruits with actual citizenship in those countries. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/51 "2015-11-20T23:58:09Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > They won’t try very hard, because it would be exceptionally difficult, with little chance of success. Because it’s so freakin’ obvious, and so easy to prevent. These are people willing to strap bombs to their bodies and take on suicide missions willingly, what do you think “trying hard” looks like to them? ISIS packs off a few score of its people to mingle with the real refugees. A few young men with no papers amongst a multitude of genuine young male refugees with no papers and some small risk of being caught. They don’t need that many to make it in order for it to be considered a success. And exactly what vetting has been done on the thousands of Syrian refugees that recently travelled through Greece, the Balkans and on into Austria and Germany? (Prior to the Paris massacre of course), what easy prevention is in place to stop them? You know, the ones that were purposefully not screened and processed at the first point of European entry because those initial countries knew that the final destination lies further west and so can be considered someone else’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/52 "2015-11-21T00:06:17Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I support the arguments made by the OP and others that it would make no sense for ISIS to pursue that pathway _into the US_, and make not much more sense them to try and do it that way into Europe, where they already have recruits with actual citizenship in those countries. Well there we go then. Your method of counter-terrorism seems to amount to a doctrine of “No need to worry, they are hardly likely to try a pathway we consider too obvious” Good luck with that. I sincerely hope I’m wrong but I have a strong suspicion that we will have headlines over the coming months and years that identify ISIS terrorists in the west as a result of exploiting the migration of unscreened refugees from Syria and elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/53 "2015-11-21T00:13:18Z")
Who are these “unscreened refugees”? The US has a long (over a year) process for screening refugees. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/54 "2015-11-21T00:22:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Well there we go then. Your method of counter-terrorism seems to amount to a doctrine of > > “No need to worry, they are hardly likely to try a pathway we consider too obvious” Well if you’re going to rephrase my arguments into different arguments, I guess we’re done. Go on with your bad self. Have fun cowering in the castle. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/55 "2015-11-21T00:26:22Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I sincerely hope I’m wrong but I have a strong suspicion that we will have headlines over the coming months and years that identify ISIS terrorists in the west as a result of exploiting the migration of unscreened refugees from Syria and elsewhere. If you have to rely on complete and pathetic lies (unscreened refugees) to make your point, you have utterly, utterly lost the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/56 "2015-11-21T08:01:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Who are these “unscreened refugees”? The US has a long (over a year) process for screening refugees. Read my post. I specifically don’t claim that refugees are not screened before making it to the USA. They are, I admit as much. The unscreened refugees I talk about are those who crossed to Greece and then through the Schengen countries into western Europe. I take it at least you admit that _they_ exist? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/57 "2015-11-21T08:24:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If you have to rely on complete and pathetic lies (unscreened refugees) to make your point, you have utterly, utterly lost the argument. Has the refugee crisis in Europe totally passed you by for the last couple of years? This is from the that bastion of rabid right-wing paranoia [The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/19/syrian-refugees-in-america-fact-from-fiction-congress). It clarifies the additional screening undertaken by the USA…but > [@](#): > > By contrast, a refugee hoping to reach Europe can pay a smuggler approximately $1,000 (£660) to take them in a dinghy across the six-mile-wide strait between Turkey and the Greek islands. > > Upon arrival, a refugee is fingerprinted and then allowed to reach the European mainland even if they do not have identification documents. They are then transported through a succession of European countries until they reach more welcoming countries, such as Germany, Austria and Sweden, where many of them claim asylum. Due to Europe’s Schengen system, which allows anyone to pass between most of the countries in the EU without having to show their passport, a migrant could then easily reach Paris without ever being given a background check by any government official. And understand that this route was under even less scrutiny prior to Aug/Sep this year. This has been an ongoing point of concern for the European countries for some time. If ISIS are not seeking to exploit this then they are as stupid as they are brutal. _Those_ are the unscreened refugees to which I refer. At no point have I claimed that unscreened Syrian refugees reach the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/58 "2015-11-21T12:26:10Z")
A clear diagnosis of the fear of refugees by Eric Posner at Slate: > **[Why Are People So Scared of Syrian Refugees?](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/11/why-american-people-are-scared-of-syrian-refugees.html)** > > Americans want to shut the door on Syrian refugees. According to one poll, 53 percent of Americans disapprove of allowing them into the country while... Unfortunately, his conclusion is that the politics of fear have probably decisively won on this issue: > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, once people get it into their heads that someone or something poses a big risk to them and their families, it’s hard to do anything about it. The public is famously unresponsive to the simple math and cost-benefit balancing of the sort supplied by Nowrasteh. When the government supplies reassurances in the form of evidence and expert testimony, people are more likely to disbelieve the evidence and the experts than to change their minds, and this further erodes trust in government. And if a refugee does engage in terrorism, President Obama and the Democratic Party will almost certainly pay a high price. Obama has taken the high road—and there is much to admire in his position. But unless he can find a way to calm public fears, the refugees are in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/59 "2015-11-21T12:45:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > They won’t try very hard, because it would be exceptionally difficult, with little chance of success. Because it’s so freakin’ obvious, and so easy to prevent. Also, _they don’t freaking need to_. They’ve got Frenchies and Belgians and Brits and even Americans willing to do the dirty. What the hell would they want Syrian refugees for ? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050/60 "2015-11-21T15:57:55Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > _Those_ are the unscreened refugees to which I refer. At no point have I claimed that unscreened Syrian refugees reach the USA. You specifically mentioned the identification of ISIS terrorists in the West and exploiting unscreened refugees in a thread about terrorists (not) infiltrating refugees bound for the US! What the hell were you thinking? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-it-burns-isil-infiltrating-u-s-bound-refugees/738050.md?page=4)