# The stupid rumors about Springfield Haitians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2024, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210 "2024-09-13T04:48:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/261 "2024-09-25T14:42:49Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > lying requires an intent to deceive. I checked and not all of the definitions require intent, often definition #1 requires intent, but #3 is just telling an untruth intentional or not. Some of these lies about Haitians can be attributed not to an intent to deceive, but to a depraved indifference to the truth. Their intent may not be to spread an untruth, but they are very much intending to not spend a second to verify their nationally broadcast slurs of a community. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/262 "2024-09-25T15:35:30Z")
They all know it’s not true and are intending to deceive. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/263 "2024-09-25T18:48:50Z")
There’s a reason why you can point out that what a person said was untrue on this board outside of the Pit, but if you call them a liar that’s a personal attack and disallowed. Being a liar means deliberately telling a falsehood. Still, I do agree that casually and carelessly spreading dangerous BS is not much better than lying, even if you think what you’re saying is accurate, when it just takes the minimum of effort to check if what you’re saying is correct. Especially if your claims are particularly outlandish or damaging. I’d say “depraved indifference to the truth” is a fairly apt description. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/264 "2024-09-25T18:59:31Z")
Just an FYI… Under **[Federal Law](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-910-knowingly-and-willfully)**, you don’t have to know that the statement you made is false: > The false statement need not be made with an intent to defraud if there is an intent to mislead or to induce belief in its falsity. Reckless disregard of whether a statement is true, or a conscious effort to avoid learning the truth, can be construed as acting “knowingly.” ‘Reckless disregard’ is the legal terminology. Think about Trump and The Big Lie (the rigged 2020 election). Think about how many loyal civil servants _and_ Trump appointees contradicted him before he assembled Team Cuckoo’s Nest to tell him what he wanted to hear. The same applies to this case since we’re told that a Vance staffer **[called](https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/politics/springfield-ohio-vance-campaign-wsj-report/index.html)** Springfield, OH government types to get the Straight Dope (and were told the story was ‘baseless’). ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/265 "2024-09-25T19:16:54Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > The same applies to this case since we’re told that a Vance staffer **[called](https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/politics/springfield-ohio-vance-campaign-wsj-report/index.html)** Springfield, OH government types to get the Straight Dope (and were told the story was ‘baseless’). Yes, this right here makes it a lie. They actually tried to verify the story, and when they were told it was bullshit, they ignored that and told the lie anyways. There’s no way this was an accident, or even just being “indifferent” to the truth. They _wanted_ to know the truth, and then rejected it when it wasn’t what they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/266 "2024-09-25T19:28:27Z")
Not sure about the accuracy or objectiveness of this, but [here](https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/375011/feds-and-state-ag-investigate-an-alleged-human-trafficking-empire-run-in-springfield-ohio/) is a news story that alleges some Haitians are victims of human trafficking in Springfield. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/267 "2024-09-25T23:40:25Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not sure about the accuracy or objectiveness of this Seems like BS. I looked up “King George Springfield OH” and mostly got social media mentions. It looks to be no different than the “they’re eating cat and dogs” slur. The _Jewish Journal_ is a conservative media outlet so no shocker there. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/268 "2024-09-25T23:44:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Not sure about the accuracy or objectiveness of this, Hard to say, but there’s sure a lot of filler compared to the amount of info. If it’s true, more will come out, but if not, we can be sure the rumor mill will be running at full speed. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/269 "2024-09-26T17:52:56Z")
Now Trump and Vance are being sued for “causing a panic.” I hope this one has some teeth. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/270 "2024-09-26T22:02:15Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > Not sure about the accuracy or objectiveness of this, > > Hard to say, but there’s sure a lot of filler compared to the amount of info. If it’s true, more will come out, but if not, we can be sure the rumor mill will be running at full speed. Much of what’s written in that article is meant to be inflammatory. “Human trafficking”, the offense mentioned in the news story, can mean any trade and moving of coerced people for the purpose of slavery or sexual exploitation. In my experience on Nextdoor, lately, people are using the term as a synonym for kidnapping for purpose of sexual exploitation. (e.g. a woman worried about a person following her at night got a “you almost got trafficked!” response) So, to those folks, many of whom are primed to think that trafficking is omnipresent, the headline is going to prime them for anger and outrage. But the thrust of the article has nothing to say about sexual exploitation of Haitians (there is one throwaway line of about a past incident that a local activist managed to save a mother and child from, with no other details). Most of it is about the activities of a temporary labor company, which brings Haitians from Florida to work in Springfield (and other places), and owns rental housing for the workers to stay in. There’s no indication in the article that Haitians are forced to stay in the temp company’s housing, though given how the population of the area has grown it’s little wonder there are few other places to live. Without that level of coercion, I think the term “trafficking” can only apply in a very loose sense. The most damning allegation, three sentences that claim the FBI and the Ohio attorney general are investigating this company and whistleblowers are coming forward about their activities, is attributed by “according to sources” in each of the sentences. I consider this formulation to be rather suspicious, as there is no identification or even description of the sources or how they might have gotten this information. I can understand the need for keeping some sources confidential, but there’s really nothing here for a reader to go on in evaluating how truthful this allegation might be. There’s one interesting juxtaposition of photos in the article - an aerial photo of a very large, nice house, backed up onto a golf course, which seems to be the home of the head of the temporary labor company. That photo is just above a picture of a rundown house - sagging roofs, missing shingles, overgrown greenery - in a context that would imply that the house is where the some Haitians brought in by the company stay. But there’s no positive assertion of the latter in the text - it implies that some might have stayed there in the past, and that the house is now condemned, but it doesn’t connect the two points. It’s possible the house was occupied by Haitians in the past, fell into disrepair, was condemned and the occupants moved out, and is waiting for renovations; or it’s possible it was an occupied slum until it was shut down - but there’s no way to say from the article. The company’s vans are used to give rides to Haitians, both up from Florida and from the places where they live to where they can find work. Since most Haitians there have no drivers licences, I’m not sure whether this is exploitation or a good service - but keeping a fleet of vans in good working order for that amount of mileage ain’t cheap. Towards the end of the article, the author talks about some of the locals that she met when she came there, including a local truck driver and a 20th-century Haitian immigrant who is helping the community in town adjust to their new life in the U.S. This part struck me as a bit more balanced and optimistic; it talks about both the difficulties immigrants have as new arrivals and about the dfficulties the town has adjusting to them, and has a vignette where the truck driver and the longtime immigrant end up relating to each other very authentically - once away from the TV cameras and a social media provacateur. The story paints a picture of a town where both newcomer immigrants and longtime residents are being exploited by a temp agency run by a powerful fat cat. It’s possible that this portrayal is true; certainly if the barely-sourced allegations I mention above are real and indicate criminal wrongdoing, there could be some serious charges from the situation. But I question if the focus on the temp agency in the article is adequate to explain why the town is having such trouble maintainng services for newcomers and longtime residents alike. Perhaps an investigation of the property tax rates paid by the Dole factories in town which are attracting these new workers might have shed some light on the topic. Indeed, Dole is mentioned only in passing three times in the article’s text, and once in the preface. The author mentions that many residents fear retribution from the owner of the temp agency due to his “power and influence”, but one wonders what kind of power and influence the company that owns the plant that is one of the town’s primary employers has. But we can’t criticize big business. That’s un-American. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/271 "2024-09-26T22:36:40Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > The most damning allegation, three sentences that claim the FBI and the Ohio attorney general are investigating this company and whistleblowers are coming forward about their activities, is attributed by “according to sources” in each of the sentences. I consider this formulation to be rather suspicious, as there is no identification or even description of the sources or how they might have gotten this information. I can understand the need for keeping some sources confidential, but there’s really nothing here for a reader to go on in evaluating how truthful this allegation might be. I’m guessing the “sources” are social media. Until this gets picked up by mainstream media, it’s just another conservative rag spreading baseless stuff. That doesn’t mean every bit of the story is false, but take it with a huge grain of salt. ETA: I did find one story on human trafficking in Springfield that seems legitimate, but it was from four years ago. > **[7 people charged in Springfield Township human trafficking sting](https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-summit/police-charge-2-men-in-springfield-township-human-trafficking-sting)** > > Springfield Township police arrested two men in connection with a human trafficking sting that took place at a hotel Thursday night. That’s from January 2020, and at that time if there were any Haitian immigrants in town, there weren’t many. They apparently started to arrive “around 2020”, so I’m guessing this predated the influx of people from Haiti and doubt any were involved in this story. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/272 "2024-09-26T22:44:50Z")
Just an FYI … > **[Jewish Journal – Bias and Credibility](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/jewish-journal/)** > > RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words > [@](#): > > Bias Rating: RIGHT-CENTER > Factual Reporting: HIGH > Country: USA > MBFC’s Country Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE > Media Type: Newspaper > Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic > MBFC Credibility Rating: HIGH CREDIBILITY I hadn’t even heard of this outlet before. Also, past performance is no guarantee of future results. And a decent outlet can totally whiff a story, while a really disreputable one can occasionally produce a gem. My gut told me that the story was credible. There have certainly been other such stories in cities with big ag production or processing. Profiting from misery is as American as apple pie and school shootings. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/273 "2024-09-26T22:55:43Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > My gut told me that the story was credible. Like SunUp wrote, though, there’s an awful lot of hinting and not a lot of substance. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/274 "2024-09-26T23:03:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s from January 2020, and at that time if there were any Haitian immigrants in town, there weren’t many. They apparently started to arrive “around 2020”, so I’m guessing this predated the influx of people from Haiti and doubt any were involved in this story. Wikipedia sez that Springfield started a campaign to attract immigrants to aid their economy in 2014, and that Haitians started arriving in 2018. Immigrant population in an area often starts with just a few families and ramps up quickly once a critical mass is achieved and the institutions of a local community are established, so it wouldn’t be surprising for there to have been just 2-3,000 Haitians in town by early 2020. But the campaign had been running for half a decade by that point, it’s not out of the question that there had been immigrants of other nationalities by that time. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/275 "2024-10-04T19:49:37Z")
An arrest has been made in the killing of geese in the park. Was it; A) Illegal Haitian migrants B) Drag queens C) Transgender athletes D) An old white guy The answer may surprise you! > **[Someone Was Arrested For Killing Geese In Springfield — But It Wasn’t A Haitian](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/springfield-geese-haitian-golf-course_n_66fec370e4b03185708e93ab)** > > Brian Comer, a 64-year-old white man, was accused of illegally hunting geese at a golf course on the day Trump amplified racist lies about Haitian immigrants in the city. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/276 "2024-10-04T19:57:46Z")
I’m shocked, _shocked_ that it was an old white guy. Here’s my shocked face: 😲 ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/277 "2024-10-04T20:23:31Z")
So, a transgendered drag queen athlete Haitian immigrant disguising himself as an old white guy. They’re playing the game far more deeply. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/278 "2024-10-04T21:03:38Z")
I can’t find this video except on xitter. Hopefully you aren’t blocking it, because it’s worth listening to. This woman from Springfield is amazing. > ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/279 "2024-10-04T21:09:54Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I can’t find this video except on xitter. Hopefully you aren’t blocking it, because it’s worth listening to. This woman from Springfield is amazing. On what occasion was she speaking, and who was the woman in the lower half of the video? Lacks a bit of context. But yeah, great speech. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210/280 "2024-10-04T21:15:45Z")
Watching the video, the woman in the lower half of the screen is sitting nearby. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-stupid-rumors-about-springfield-haitians/1007210.md?page=15)