# The Supreme Court and Moore v Harper **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 5, 2022, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045 "2022-12-05T07:05:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/61 "2022-12-08T21:02:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The octogenarian octagon. Two men enter, then forget why. I should not have laughed as loudly as I did in reading that. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/62 "2022-12-08T21:43:42Z")
I’m a strong proponent of PR (and uncapping the House). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/63 "2022-12-08T22:09:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Only if replaced by Trial by Combat Fifty Quatloos on the newcomer! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/64 "2022-12-08T22:34:15Z")
Moderating: > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Only if replaced by Trial by Combat > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Long overdue but hopefully we’re bringing more people around to the idea every day. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Which one? True proportional representation in the House OR Biden vs Trump fighting it out in the octagon? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > The octogenarian octagon. Two men enter, then forget why. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Fifty Quatloos on the newcomer! Enough with the hijacks. You all have been here long enough to know when you’re engaging in it. There are plenty of places around the forum to goof around. This thread isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/65 "2022-12-09T02:00:39Z")
Thanks From reading that link and wikis on those cases, it seems like in theory the SCOTUS would allow federal courts to review something that was explicit in constitutional or federal law, but something like partisan gerrymandering isn’t explicitly illegal so they won’t let the federal courts step in on that. The problem then becomes that those powers have already been significantly neutered, and if the court winds up ruling in favor of ISLT, they’re not going to have any problem calvinball-ing any federal election laws into being unenforceable in any practical sense. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/66 "2022-12-09T02:24:35Z")
I only learned of this issue from listening to an NPR discussion about it yesterday. Another bloody frightening thing. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/67 "2022-12-09T19:48:57Z")
If nothing else, I can’t see the SCOTUS signing off on anything that precludes judicial review, at any level. That’s shooting themselves in the foot to spite their face…I think that metaphor go away from me… ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/68 "2022-12-09T20:01:13Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > …shooting themselves in the foot to spite their face… Stealing. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/69 "2023-06-27T14:23:27Z")
> **[Supreme Court rejects controversial Trump-backed election law theory | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/politics/supreme-court-election-clause-case/index.html)** > > The Supreme Court said that the North Carolina Supreme Court did not violate the elections clause of the US Constitution when it invalidated the state’s 2022 congressional map, rejecting a broad version of a controversial legal theory pushed by... ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/70 "2023-06-27T14:25:23Z")
I just saw that on scotusblog. here is the full opinion: > **[21-1271\_3f14.pdf](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-1271_3f14.pdf)** > > 323.43 KB Brian ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/71 "2023-06-27T15:09:27Z")
(_breathes huge sigh of relief_) Does this at least eliminate one of the big fears about next year’s election – that a state such as Wisconsin could simply nominate a slate of Republican electors, regardless of its popular vote? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/72 "2023-06-27T16:07:59Z")
This decision is indeed a huge relief. The “independent state legislature theory” promised to play havoc with our elections, allowing state legislatures to rewrite election law and determine the appointment of Presidential electors completely unbound by a Governor’s veto, state judicial review, or even their own state constitutions. I am pleased that this view was amply rejected, with only Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch opposed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/73 "2023-06-27T17:11:59Z")
Huh. That’s odd, that the 2 most corrupt Supreme Court Justices voted against the obvious decision here. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/74 "2023-06-27T17:14:16Z")
Agreed. I was more worried about this decision than any other on their docket this session. It would have legalized what Trump & Co. attempted with their fake electors scheme. Nonetheless, I find it quite disturbing that it wasn’t a 9-0 decision. Not a surprise, but disturbing. My personal opinion is that public pressure and the delegitimization of the Court over the past year brushed them back from doing what they may have planned to do when they originally decided to take up this case. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/75 "2023-06-27T17:34:12Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > My personal opinion is that public pressure and the delegitimization of the Court over the past year brushed them back from doing what they may have planned to do when they originally decided to take up this case. Unless the blowback from overturning _Roe vs Wade_ unnerved them more I thought, I would think they wouldn’t reverse course like that. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/76 "2023-06-27T17:36:15Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Nonetheless, I find it quite disturbing that it wasn’t a 9-0 decision. Not a surprise, but disturbing. From my quick perusal of the opinion, it seems Thomas’s opinion (joined by Alito and Gorsuch) is based on the case being moot due to a flip by the NC Supreme Court, rather than on the merits of the independent state legislature theory. However, there’s an article in Slate: > **[There’s a Time Bomb in Progressives’ Big Supreme Court Voting Case Win](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/06/supreme-court-voting-moore-v-harper-time-bomb.html)** > > What Chief Justice John Roberts left unresolved in his majority opinion is going to be hanging out there. which claims that John Roberts may have horse-traded his vote for a concession from the liberal minority that gives federal courts a lot more leeway in reviewing the decisions of state courts over their election laws. Hasen says this could set us up for another Bush v. Gore down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/77 "2023-06-27T17:43:11Z")
I think that’s exactly what happened. It takes 5 on the Court to agree to take up case, and with their heady sense of newfound power after _Roe_, I think Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett were the 5 that voted to take up the _Moore v. Harper_ case with the express intention of making some big changes to the law. Stare decisis? What’s that? As you no doubt recall, they had settled this matter with another case only a few months earlier. If no change was intended, there was no reason to take it up at all. Then came the blowback from _Roe_, along with the revelations of corrupt behavior by Thomas and Alito. Their approval rating has now plummeted to lower than at any other time since the measurement of approval commenced. I imagine Roberts suggested – strongly – they slow down on their partisan efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/78 "2023-06-27T17:46:12Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > which claims that John Roberts may have horse-traded his vote for a concession from the liberal minority that gives federal courts a lot more leeway in reviewing the decisions of state courts over their election laws. I haven’t yet had a chance to read the opinion, but I’ll take your word on your read of it. That’s much worse than my interpretation. ☹ The Slate article does appear to have a good take on what actually occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/79 "2023-06-27T18:02:19Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It takes 5 on the Court to agree to take up case Nitpick. Four justices can grant cert. > **[Rule of four](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_four)** > > The rule of four is a US Supreme Court practice that permits four of the nine justices to grant a writ of certiorari. It has the specific purpose to prevent a majority of the Court's members from controlling their docket. > The rule of four is not required by the US Constitution, any law, or even the Court's own published rules. Rather, it is a custom that has been observed since the Court was given discretion on hearing appeals by the Judiciary Act of 1891, Judiciary Act of 1925, and the Supreme... ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045/80 "2023-06-27T18:20:57Z")
I’m sorry – and thanks for the correction! Not sure how I got it into my head it was 5, not 4. Thanks again. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-and-moore-v-harper/976045.md?page=5)