# The Supreme Court Builds More Corruption into our Judicial System and Institutions **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 27, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386 "2024-06-27T03:50:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/41 "2024-06-28T12:21:16Z")
IMO, the mere acceptance of the gift - either before or after the official act - is sufficient evidence of the corrupt intent. I’m generally no fan of bright lines, but as a government employee, the idea that NO ONE with any interests related to my job can give me ANYTHING works just fine. If I want to be able to accept gifts related to my work, there are plenty of jobs in private industry where I can do that. Hell, here in Illinois, we’ve got past/recent/and future convictions of the likes of Blago/Burke/and Madigan - which sure seem to be questionable under this recent ruling. What a joke. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/42 "2024-06-28T12:58:17Z")
Hmm… > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > …accept, anything of value from any person, intending to be influenced or rewarded in connection with any business, … The I suppose they would have wanted the text to read instead … accept, anything of value from any person, intending to be influenced or rewarded in connection with _, or receives such thing of value as a gratuity freely offered,_ for any business, … And I’m sure that too could be worked around. … I’ve been around this class of society long enough to know that a large number of them **really** see nothing wrong with a “thank you gift” that’s “freely proffered of their own initiative” by the other person, and that especially in the elected-official subcategory it easily degenerates from the fair-enough and expected “I did this that’s good for you, so you should vote for me” into the notion that it’s a rule of gratitude that people who benefit from your actions “owe you” proportionately to what they can – by giving or doing something extra, or at least NOT opposing you later. (Ah, and that their being elected (or appointed-and-confirmed) _of course_ makes _THEM_ a more equal animal than **Dinsdale** or I, who DO have to know our place and stay within our lines) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/43 "2024-06-28T16:42:29Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > No, intent and a pre-existing agreement aren’t the same thing. I suppose that I’d see an argument that doing things that you generally believed would be liable to produce money raining down out of the sky would count as “corrupt intent”. The facts of the case would need to support that charge, though. I haven’t read through it, yet. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/44 "2024-06-28T17:06:38Z")
So much for originalism. I think that if in 1790 a representative was found to have accepted a “gratuity” from a wealthy businessman after having legislated on their behalf he would have been tarred feathered and run out of town on a rail. I realize that corruption is a problem everywhere, but usually its just because its ignored by people who are also on the take. Are there any other countries where the legality of certain acts of corruption have been so explicitly sanctioned by the courts? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/45 "2024-06-28T18:28:44Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I realize that corruption is a problem everywhere, but usually its just because its ignored by people who are also on the take. That seems to apply in this case too. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/46 "2024-06-28T22:42:23Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > That they want it to be out of balance in their direction, and that only a court out of balance in their direction is Right, Correct, and Just. > > Or, for that matter, just that it wasn’t out of balance, but right where it belonged. What you can see isn’t what they’re seeing. > > – and we’d still need 60 votes in the Senate to get anybody confirmed. Easier than getting a constitutional amendment through; but doesn’t look imminently likely. Agreed to all of that. I hope everyone is girding themselves up sufficiently over the weekend to receive this Court’s likely ‘PRESIDENTS CAN ORDER ASSASSINATIONS ANYTIME THEY WANT TO’ decision on Monday. (After today’s ‘_obstructing Congress from carrying out their Constitutional vote-count duty is SUPER and WE LOVE IT_’ decision, I think we can be fairly certain of what the Immunity decision will say.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/47 "2024-06-29T08:12:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This decision undoes the lawful conviction of James Snyder, a former mayor of Portage, Indiana. He received a kickback of $13,000 for awarding two contracts to provide garbage trucks to the city. > > So now, apparently if you call a kickback a “gratuity,” it’s all perfectly fine! I wonder what the justices think will happen the next time Portage, Indiana, needs new garbage trucks. Will it be a fair, open bidding process, conducted with the utmost integrity, to ensure that public funds are spend in the best interests of the citizenry; or will the mayor, whoever it is at the time, think “what I can buy with $130,000”? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/48 "2024-06-29T22:49:20Z")
From their point of view, that will be a matter for the Indiana Legislature and AG to legislate and prosecute. They will say they did not ban ANY anticorruption law, but that the federal statute doesn’t apply beyond a certain limited way to state and local officials. Now, if **state** legislatures and courts then feel cowed into not legislating on their own or into emasculating the enforcement of their own laws (thinking that then someone will challenge _those_ in the federal sphere based on this), that’s surely a “bonus” from the POV of the pro-capital lobby. Purely, of course, a reward after the fact rather than something intended, I’m sure they’d argue… ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/49 "2024-06-30T00:22:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > From their point of view, that will be a matter for the Indiana Legislature and AG to legislate and prosecute. They will say they did not ban ANY anticorruption law, but that the federal statute doesn’t apply beyond a certain limited way to state and local officials. Ah, the whole “states are the laboratories of democracy” bit. Now we can have states try different ways of bribing public officials to see which one works best. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/50 "2024-06-30T14:03:26Z")
Remember to tip your Supreme Court Justices. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/51 "2024-06-30T21:34:53Z")
…into the sea. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/52 "2024-06-30T22:09:12Z")
Or at least the Potomac. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/53 "2024-07-01T00:17:56Z")
Boston Harbor would be both scenic and symbolic. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/54 "2024-07-01T00:48:18Z")
Oh, jeez, after all the time, money, and effort it took to get rid of the harbor pollution you want to sully it again? https: [//youtu.be/5apEctKwiD8?si=fyJX3bFlQPGxtGYK](https://youtu.be/5apEctKwiD8?si=fyJX3bFlQPGxtGYK) ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/55 "2024-07-01T14:32:26Z")
They’re treating the trump immunity ruling like the big reveal on a reality show, dragging it out as far as possible. They’ve now released every pending ruling EXCEPT that one. And the clock ticks on. I spoke too soon. From Washington Post > The court has ruled on [presidential immunity](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/25/supreme-court-oral-arguments-trump-immunity/?itid=lk_inline_manual_5). “A former president is entitled to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his “conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority,” the ruling says. “There is no immunity for unofficial acts.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/56 "2024-07-01T14:40:03Z")
So did they provide any clarification on what counts as official vs. unofficial acts? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/57 "2024-07-01T14:40:13Z")
The delay sucks. The metaphysical _impossibility_ that we’ll get to hear and see all the evidence before the election is abhorrent and certainly not coincidental. But SCOTUS – in kicking this back to Judge Chutkan – gives us something that is, IMHO, better than it _could_ have been. I could have seen SCOTUS declaring the alternate slate of electors scam as _being_ within DJT’s official duties. I don’t think the same thing of Judge Chutkan. Justice delayed is still justice denied, but it’s better than “Before we go on vacation, may we present … your new King, King Donald.” ETA: and SCOTUS declaring that any decision by Chutkan _can be_ appealed _back_ to SCOTUS … also sucks. But it still isn’t the Worst Case Scenario. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/58 "2024-07-01T14:42:34Z")
“Official acts” defined as “things that are OK if a Republican president does them, but not OK if a Democratic president does.” ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/59 "2024-07-01T14:42:37Z")
Absolutely a bad decision. If a President, in carrying out his "conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority,” must commit criminal acts, then there either something wrong with the constitution or with the law. Granting the President absolute immunity fixes neither. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386/60 "2024-07-01T14:50:51Z")
I don’t think it’s that simple. One thing the President can do as part of his official duties, for instance, is order people killed. He’s the commander in chief of the military, and that’s inherent to what militaries do. We can debate the circumstances under which he’s allowed to do this, but if an ordinary person orders someone killed, it’s illegal regardless of the circumstances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-builds-more-corruption-into-our-judicial-system-and-institutions/1003386.md?page=4)