# The Supreme Court has kicked off Civil War 2.0 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824 "2022-06-25T09:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/141 "2022-06-26T23:53:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The way to winning elections is to win the majority of those voting. …well, no it isn’t. Because the Democrats won the majority of those voting in 2016 and still lost the elections. There isn’t some magical formula to follow that will win the Democrats the next few rounds of elections. The Republicans are actively perusing voter suppression, gerrymandering, they are stacking bodies that certify elections, they are going after every vote from school boards to city council. And this strategy will win elections. “Win the majority of those voting” isn’t a strategy. It’s an outcome. Going back to what AOC said in her thread: this is what she wants: > [@AOC](#): > > Dem leaders must tell voters the plan: > > What’s the _actual_ need? Which specific seats are we focused on? WHAT votes do we need & WHERE (what states + races?) > > And, what’s the return? What is Biden/Congress ACTUALLY willing+able to do at 52/60 seats? > > Be honest. Details motivate The progressives **are not the enemy** here. What they are doing right now is demanding that the leadership step up to the plate. People need to know what they should be doing now. It isn’t enough to just say “vote.” It isn’t enough to just put your faith in the centrists, and to just hope and pray that they win in November. Biden, Harris, Pelosi, they need to step up right now. ---
**Author:** ![cocoadudedagreyhound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cocoadudedagreyhound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cocoadudedagreyhound)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/142 "2022-06-27T00:00:09Z")
Im not trying to argue but I dont see how Im making it personal. The person is making a common talking point from right wing media and Im calling them out on it. If they dont want me calling out, they need to come up with original thoughts and not just repeat what they heard on the news. I will just leave it at that and take your suggestions into my further posts. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/143 "2022-06-27T00:01:26Z")
Yeah, she’s being very much a proper politician saying things that make complete sense: 1. Winning by a gazillion in coastal California and downstate New York and losing by a hair everywhere else is still losing: strategize where to invest effort. 2. You can’t beat something with nothing. Even if the something is bullshit. So in those races where you are investing effort, have a platform that says “here’s how things _would be better for you_ if we get a real functioning majority” ---
**Author:** ![cocoadudedagreyhound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cocoadudedagreyhound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cocoadudedagreyhound)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/144 "2022-06-27T00:05:02Z")
Actually, there is somewhat of a magical formula to win elections and as much as nobody wants to hear it, its by nominating centrists who cater to the lowest common detonator. People piss and moan about biden, but people nominated him for that exact reason. When your trying to win the electoral college, your not trying to win NY or Cali or the New England area or whatever other liberal areas there is. Your trying to win alot of flyover places and alot of very suburban boring areas, hence why they try to cater to those types of people. The progressive strategy could be worked and become a viable political strategy if progressive strategist understood who they are trying to win. They are trying to win your average joe out in the midwest. They are trying to win out some suburban middle class black family out in the Atlanta suburbs. They arent trying to win over yuppies on the coasts since they already have those votes. People complain that the politicians arent exciting or that they dont do enough, but Americans in these battleground areas want politicians that are boring and dont change much. The people got what they wanted, boring politicians. Its what they asked for and what they are getting. Until the electoral college goes away, its just always going to be that way. The liberal high income parts of the country just dont matter in national contests. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/145 "2022-06-27T00:06:44Z")
Moderating: > [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > Im not trying to argue but I dont see how Im making it personal. The person is making a common talking point from right wing media and Im calling them out on it. If they dont want me calling out, they need to come up with original thoughts and not just repeat what they heard on the news. > > I will just leave it at that and take your suggestions into my further posts. Thank you. Implying that someone is binge watching Fox News and not getting outside enough is definitely a personal insult. I’m going to give you a pass once – **just once** – for continuing to argue moderation in this thread and not give you a second warning for doing it. I strongly suggest you step back, take a breath and acquaint yourself with forum rules, P&E forum rules in particular, before posting further. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/146 "2022-06-27T00:11:48Z")
> [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > Actually, there is somewhat of a magical formula to win elections and as much as nobody wants to hear it, its by nominating centrists who cater to the lowest common **detonator**. …this is not, in fact, a magical formula. Catering to the lowest common detonator is just a way to blow everything up. > [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > When your trying to win the electoral college, your not trying to win NY or Cali or the New England area or whatever other liberal areas there is. Your trying to win alot of flyover places and alot of very suburban boring areas, hence why they try to cater to those types of people. So in simpler words: you agree with AOC. She wants the Democrat leadership to tell people what’s the _actual_ need? Which specific seats are we focused on? WHAT votes do we need & WHERE (what states + races?) ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/147 "2022-06-27T00:15:06Z")
I wonder if what we are seeing is a more global phenomenon than just the US, something like the decline of the nation-state. It is, comparatively, a recent thing, and born from a particular moment in a particular form of economics. With that economy stumbling–it’s always done that, stumbling from depression to inflation and back–and changing, particularly changing into a economy that is not based primarily on production but on finance, does the nation-state have any real function anymore? It may end with a bang or a whimper, or both, but perhaps it has out-lived its usefulness for capital and lost its emotional appeal for the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![cocoadudedagreyhound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cocoadudedagreyhound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cocoadudedagreyhound)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/148 "2022-06-27T00:22:45Z")
I mean, thats all going to be relevant based on where you live and the political culture there. I used to live in Florida to where nobody seems to care about whats going on. I now live in PA and people here are alot more politically engaged. Its going to be up to whatever states the people live in to determine if their votes mater or not. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/149 "2022-06-27T00:24:30Z")
…so in other words: you agree with AOC. ---
**Author:** ![cocoadudedagreyhound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cocoadudedagreyhound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cocoadudedagreyhound)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/150 "2022-06-27T00:33:28Z")
No lol? I just explained why I dont. Its up to the voters to figure out if their votes matter. Your either know that the state you live in your vote will make a difference or not just by what you deal with on a daily basis. The DNC doesnt need to make the obvious even more obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/151 "2022-06-27T00:38:40Z")
> [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > The DNC doesnt need to make the obvious even more obvious. …there is no surer way to guarantee losing the next election than this. Not even the current Democrat leadership are going into the next election with a plan this poor. ---
**Author:** ![cocoadudedagreyhound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cocoadudedagreyhound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cocoadudedagreyhound)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/152 "2022-06-27T00:42:15Z")
Since you know so much about political strategy, maybe you should get a job at the DNC. Clearly your lightyears ahead of the current administration and can give them some pointers since its obviously they are all wrong and you are 100% right. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/153 "2022-06-27T00:44:57Z")
…I wasn’t talking about the current DNC strategy. I was talking about **your** proposed strategy of “not needing to make the obvious even more obvious.” ---
**Author:** ![cocoadudedagreyhound](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cocoadudedagreyhound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cocoadudedagreyhound)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/154 "2022-06-27T00:48:13Z")
Im not proposing anything. I am not a professional political strategist. This is just my opinion. But clearly you know lots of about political strategy and instead of becoming a consultant that can make lots of money, for some reason you would rather donate your free time and energy and resources to arguing on a message board. I just am not going to keep talking about this with you. Clearly your mind is made up and you do not want to have a discussion so I will leave you be. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/155 "2022-06-27T00:51:33Z")
> [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > But clearly you know lots of about political strategy and instead of becoming a consultant that can make lots of money, for some reason you would rather donate your free time and energy and resources to arguing on a message board. …this is the “politics and elections” forum. Arguing about politics and elections is what we do here. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/156 "2022-06-27T00:51:47Z")
Moderating: > [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > Since you know so much about political strategy, maybe you should get a job at the DNC. Clearly your lightyears ahead of the current administration and can give them some pointers since its obviously they are all wrong and you are 100% right. This is a second warning today for failing to follow moderator instructions to stop making personal attacks on other posters. If you do it again, you will receive a suspension from the board. Either offer support for your assertions or walk away, but stop insulting other posters and thinking you are making useful points. You’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/157 "2022-06-27T02:09:15Z")
Hijack: It’s _gone **ROGUE** _, not _gone rouge_. Rouge is makeup. End hijack. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/158 "2022-06-27T02:18:51Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Hijack: > > It’s _gone **ROGUE** _, not _gone rouge_. Rouge is makeup. > > End hijack. - _Someone’s_ face is red. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/159 "2022-06-27T02:32:05Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Biden, Harris, Pelosi, they need to step up right now. And do _what_, exactly? > [@cocoadudedagreyhound](#): > > People piss and moan about biden, but people nominated him for that exact reason. We nominated Biden as he was the only one who could reliably beat trump. And he was a decent choice. And, so far, he is the only one who can beat trump in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2022, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824/160 "2022-06-27T02:49:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And do _what_, exactly? … > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Going back to what AOC said in her thread: this is what she wants: > > > [@](#): > > > > Dem leaders must tell voters the plan: > > > > What’s the _actual_ need? Which specific seats are we focused on? WHAT votes do we need & WHERE (what states + races?) > > > > And, what’s the return? What is Biden/Congress ACTUALLY willing+able to do at 52/60 seats? > > > > Be honest. Details motivate [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-has-kicked-off-civil-war-2-0/966824.md?page=9)