# The Supreme Court isn't done: Watch and see a lot of individual rights fall **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843 "2022-06-25T15:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/221 "2022-07-07T01:39:26Z")
The practice of medicine, as well as hospitals and insurance companies, are already regulated at the state level, not the feds. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/222 "2022-07-07T01:41:48Z")
Except that most hospitals are dependent on Medicare and Medicaid patients, so CMS has a lot to say about how they operate. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/223 "2022-07-07T01:55:45Z")
Yes, that’s also true. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/224 "2022-07-09T16:26:37Z")
Well to be fair, Republicans started saying the US wasn’t a democracy around 2016. They said this like it was a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/225 "2022-07-09T17:56:08Z")
The “republic, not a democracy” meme became big much earlier, during the 2000 presidential recount. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/226 "2022-07-09T18:14:29Z")
“A republic, if you can keep it”, goes back to 1787. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/227 "2022-07-09T18:45:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > “A republic, if you can keep it”, goes back to 1787 That, of course, has zero to do with what we are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/228 "2022-07-09T18:49:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The “republic, not a democracy” meme became big much earlier, during the 2000 presidential recount Before that, I seem to remember a lot of talk about _“the republic for which it stands.”_ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/229 "2022-07-09T19:28:13Z")
Was that during your daily forced indoctrination? That’s less talk, more mindless recitation, and certainly not defining the political structure of our country. I seem to remember “a lot of talk about” liberty and justice for all, and that’s certainly not defining the social structure. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/230 "2022-07-09T19:51:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Was that during your daily forced indoctrination? Well, during the _attempt_; I saw no point in pledging allegiance to a flag, and so, y’know, didn’t actually bother to mouth the words. And when I learned about the Supreme Court decision that addressed the right _not_ to so pledge allegiance, I was glad to hear it; and when I heard that the Supreme Court struck down an oh-so-popular law about burning the flag, well, I was glad to hear _that_, too. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/231 "2022-07-09T19:53:37Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Before that, I seem to remember a lot of talk about _“the republic for which it stands.”_ Notice that there’s no denial or repudiation of democracy, either implicitly or explicitly, in that line. It’s only when the right started realizing that it could not achieve majorities through fair and equal elections that it started acting like democracy was not something it values. And also the fallacy that a republic and a democracy were somehow antitheses of each other. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/232 "2022-07-09T20:09:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And also the fallacy that a republic and a democracy were somehow antitheses of each other. I wouldn’t go so far as to say ‘antitheses’; I kind of figured that, like the man said, the _“very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One’s right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections.”_ When it comes to handling stuff _other_ than that, sure, bring on the plebiscites, or let elected officials take point; but for all the stuff that _is_ that, I always thought it _wasn’t_ supposed to be a question of whether the vote was democratic. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/233 "2022-07-10T02:11:50Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Before that, I seem to remember a lot of talk about _“the republic for which it stands.”_ Yes, but that isn’t “a republic, not a democracy.” The USA is both a republic and a democracy, and for generations no one had a problem with that. It’s recently that Republicans have started claiming it’s not a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/234 "2022-07-10T05:07:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s recently that Republicans have started claiming it’s not a democracy. Only when it serves their purpose. Otherwise they subscribe to the mob mentality of "50 million Elvis fans _can’t_ be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/235 "2022-07-10T12:29:58Z")
They’re betting the farm on rigging the Electoral College system. It definitely behooves them to downplay the relevance of the popular vote (you know: the one where they’ve been losing, bigly [NB: unfortunately, the Democrats keep forgetting that winning the popular vote is tantamount to receiving a ‘participation trophy.’]) It also behooves Democrats to remember that one of the most important features of a Constitutional Republic is that it avoids the “It’s like two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for lunch” aspect of a true Democracy. And maybe blunts – if only marginally – the “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter” quote from Churchill. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/236 "2022-07-10T13:25:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > {…} It’s recently that Republicans have started claiming it’s not a democracy. Where “recently” means since (at least) the 1970s when I first heard right-wingers saying it. My being born in 1963 might color my recollection of just how old this canard is. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/237 "2022-07-10T16:08:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Yes, but that isn’t “a republic, not a democracy.” The USA is both a republic and a democracy, and for generations no one had a problem with that. Yeah, that particular platitude whereby it pretends to be a binary alternative is one of those rhetorical flourishes used to justify positions by appeal to “originalist” idolatry-of-the-founders. Basically those pointing it out reach for writings of the early Republic who _ **did** _ make a distinction in making the claim the indirect limited representational system created was a way to avoid the “tyranny of the majority”. Now, we may look at it and say: _“Wait, those authors were using the word “democracy” to refer to what, to them, was unrestricted rule swayed by the passion of the moment, in what was a time and place with very limited means of communication and a lot of illiterate people, and contrast it to their brilliant “republic” which would be governed with virtue and reason according to strict parameters, by men like them. These were people who did not even grant suffrage to all white Christian men, dammit!”_ Now, one would think, wouldn’t that vision of the Republic/Democracy dichotomy become ineffective in gathering popular votes as the society changed? Ah… but what we’re missing is… **both** the supposedly “conservative” elites **and** the populist voters have been raised to believe that **they** are the holders of true values of virtue and wisdom, and the Republic should be governed by men [claiming to be] like **them** , _regardless of whether they are a true numerical majority_ and that **that** is what it meant all along. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/238 "2022-07-10T16:17:57Z")
Bit of a hijack, but I’ll keep it short. Back when I was a youth, I happened to be a fly on the wall when some people from a wealthy family in Canada were chatting just amongst themselves about politics. One of them commented that he’d recently read about how in the German Empire, votes were weighted according to an individual’s wealth, so that a rich person’s vote counted 3 or 5 times more than an ordinary schlub’s vote, and “Gee, that sounds like such a sensible system. If only there were a way to implement it here in Canada.” AND NOT ONE DAMN PERSON sitting around that table called him on his anti-democratic, plutocratic vision. They all nodded and said variants of “if only…” I don’t have a bumper sticker that says “Eat the rich”, but ever since then I’ve viewed with suspicion any rich person who wants to be in politics. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/239 "2022-07-11T14:43:02Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It also behooves Democrats to remember that one of the most important features of a Constitutional Republic is that it avoids the “It’s like two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for lunch” aspect of a true Democracy. But no one in the Democratic Party ever forgot that. It’s just not a thing in American politics that anyone is seriously saying the majority should be allowed to take away the rights of any minority by sheer popular vote. This “Republic not a democracy” thing is parroted by so many Trumpists on social media that I’m starting to think it’s a Russian astroturf thing. Most of the people saying it clearly don’t really know what republics and democracies are. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/240 "2022-07-11T19:37:52Z")
So if the Dems were to pack the court, which then revisited and overturned Heller on the basis that they that hand guns are not arms and so are not covered under the second amendment, you’d say that they were correct in their assessment? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843.md?page=13)