# The Supreme Court isn't done: Watch and see a lot of individual rights fall **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843 "2022-06-25T15:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/21 "2022-06-25T18:32:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The Supreme Court has upheld cops’ right to lie about a lot of things during interrogation. But specifically, they are _not_ allowed to lie about your rights. For now… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/22 "2022-06-25T18:49:31Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > So Miranda warnings are no longer needed to be given, but the overall concept of “I have the right to remain silent” still applies, right? You have a Constitutionally-protected right against self-incrimination, i.e. an admission of guilt cannot be compelled from you. However, many of the other rights explicated in the Fifth Amendment have been materially gutted, so just the fact that it is specifically delineated in the Bill of Rights is no guarantee that conservative-minded courts will uphold this protection. > [@Acsenray](#): > > What was common is that someone who doesn’t truly understand es rights would be in custody and the cops would just coerce a confession. Or else someone would invoke the right but the cops would ignore it until they overcame any resistance. Or the cops would straight up lie about what your rights were. > > The Supreme Court has upheld cops’ right to lie about a lot of things during interrogation. The reality that a lot of convictions come from entirely voluntary admissions of guilt (often not explicit confessions but just poorly thought out statements by a suspect), and far from making it more difficult, the ‘Miranda warning’ actually made it easier to establish that such an admission was not ostensibly coerced by a suspect in custody. (Admissions of criminal acts by people not in custody are admissible even though the ‘right to remain silent’ has not been explained.). The ability of police to openly lie is more insidious than it may seem on the surface. You might believe that if you were questioned and just telling the truth that police will not trick you into admitting guilt for a crime that you did not commit but in fact that occurs with disturbing frequency. Police can lie about the law, about forensic and surveillance technology, about the statements and testimony of other witnesses, about the consequences of admitting or not admitting guilt, et cetera, and for someone not versed in either criminal law or interrogation procedure these lies can be quite confusing, particularly after hours of questioning. Police have coerced confessions by asserting that they have evidence and confessions that they do not really have and that if the suspect confesses now it is the only way to mitigate their circumstances, leading unaware people to falsely admit to guilt for a crime that they did not commit but which is now admissible in court. This is why defense attorneys across the board recommend that if you are being questioned your communication with police should be limited to identifying yourself, asking “Am I in custody?”, and if so, requesting legal counsel before making a statement or answering questions. Legal representation during questioning is an absolute right that people are often afraid to invoke because they fear that it will make them look uncooperative or guilty when in fact the default assumption by investigators is essentially that everyone is guilty of something if you just ask the right questions. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > But specifically, they are _not_ allowed to lie about your rights. Not explicitly lie, but they can certainly pressure and deceive suspects into believing that they do not have rights, and because most people are not at all conversant with their Constitutional protections they can effectively get suspects to waive their rights to no benefit. The ‘Miranda warning’ was one tiny attempt to assure that people actually understand their rights before they are questioned by police in custody, and removing that is a bellwether for further erosion of Constitutional protections. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/23 "2022-06-25T22:38:41Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Nope. That was the issue when some states started allowing gay marriage. In fact, it even goes back to states that allow minors to marry. IIRC there was a case where a couple got married when the girl was 12 because Kansas allows that. They moved to another state and the husband was convicted of child rape for having sex with his wife. And I think it even goes back to when a few states allowed interracial marriage. It has something to do with violating public policy in the different state or something or other. I don’t claim to fully understand the rationale but to me the layman it seems to violate the Constitution if you have a certain legal status here but not there. There’s always been a certain degree of inconsistency in how the Full Faith and Credit clause has been complied with. ---
**Author:** ![dummygladhands71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dummygladhands71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dummygladhands71)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/24 "2022-06-26T02:17:48Z")
So is it time for a serious discussion about packing the court? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/25 "2022-06-26T02:38:24Z")
Court-packing is a short-sighted and ultimately futile solution. Ultimately, federal judicial positions should have term limits so that appointments aren’t these decades-long biases without review. The polarization of the Supreme Court reflects that of current politics in general except that it will remain that way for a couple of decades to come. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/26 "2022-06-26T02:59:33Z")
This says it better than I could … > **[The Need for Supreme Court Term Limits](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/need-supreme-court-term-limits/)** > > It is essential to update the rules governing the Supreme Court to better reflect modern life. … and – IMHO – goes hand in hand with Jefferson’s view that we should revisit the Constitution once every generation: > **['We The People': Reconstituting The Constitution](https://www.npr.org/2011/12/10/143354018/reconstituting-the-constitution-how-to-rewrite-it)** > > That's the question scholar Christopher Phillips is asking in theoretical discussions at schools and cafes across the country. You can add your own amendment to the discussion. In the case of this thread, ISTM that the two go hand-in-hand. Wish in one hand, shit in the other… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/27 "2022-06-26T03:45:04Z")
Interesting summary from the Los Angeles Times, reposted by Political Wire: > [@](#): > > “Four of the five Supreme Court justices who voted to overturn Roe vs. Wade, the landmark 1973 decision that guaranteed abortion rights nationwide, are men. When the Senate confirmed the justices, 91% of the yes votes came from men.” > > “Four of the justices were nominated by presidents who had gained the White House despite losing the popular vote: Donald Trump and George W. Bush, who lost the popular vote in 2000 then was reelected in 2004 with 50.7%. The decision to overturn Roe vs. Wade is politically unpopular, with about 60% of Americans consistently opposing that move. And public opinion of the court itself is declining.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/28 "2022-06-26T03:47:24Z")
It’s also worth noting that 6 of the 9 justices are Catholic. More diversity is required. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/29 "2022-06-26T03:51:32Z")
I would like to see the Supreme Court constituted more like an appellate court. That is, a banque of justices who could be randomly drawn to sit for each term. Let’s say there are 18 term-limited justices. At the beginning of each term, 9 are randomly drawn to sit for the session. No one would ever know which justice was going to hear and decide landmark cases, which I believe would have the effect of dialing back the partisanship across the board. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/30 "2022-06-26T04:07:03Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It’s also worth noting that 6 of the 9 justices are Catholic. More diversity is required. I’m always for diversity, but be careful what you wish for: U.S. Catholics tend to be pro-choice. [Evangelicals are much more anti-abortion than Catholics are:](https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2022/06/06/poll-us-catholics-disagree-church-abortion-lgbt-243108) > According to the poll [released last week](https://apnorc.org/projects/most-catholic-americans-disagree-with-hardline-positions-of-church-leadership/) by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, 64 percent of U.S. Catholics (and 40 percent of Catholic Republicans) agreed that abortion should be legal in most or all cases, almost identical to the 65 percent of all adult Americans who held that view. Only 25 percent of evangelical Protestants held this view, putting Catholics closer to those with no religious affiliation at all (87 percent of whom said abortion should be legal in most or all case) than to their fellow Christians. Polls suggest a similar percentage of Muslim Americans are pro-choice. Of course, neither they nor nominees who are Jewish or unaffiliated, the groups most likely to be pro-choice, would ever get confirmation by the anti-abortion right-wingers in the Senate. Personally, I’m hoping Mitch McConnell (a Baptist) keels over from a stroke tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/31 "2022-06-26T04:08:33Z")
In my view, a couple of atheists wouldn’t go amiss if we’re trying to represent a cross-section of the country. Color me Not Hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/32 "2022-06-26T04:42:44Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I’m always for diversity, but be careful what you wish for: U.S. Catholics tend to be pro-choice. [Evangelicals are much more anti-abortion than Catholics are:](https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2022/06/06/poll-us-catholics-disagree-church-abortion-lgbt-243108) It’s a fair point, but there are more Protestant denominations than just Evangelical. (Is that even a denomination? Are they Baptists?) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/33 "2022-06-26T05:07:09Z")
As always, The Onion to the rescue! shows potential headlines that we can see in the near future. > **[The Onion | America's Finest News Source.](https://www.theonion.com/)** > > The Onion brings you all of the latest news, stories, photos, videos and more from America's finest news source. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/34 "2022-06-26T05:17:23Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It’s a fair point, but there are more Protestant denominations than just Evangelical. (Is that even a denomination? Are they Baptists?) “Evangelical” is a descriptor of outlook and/or general theology, not a denomination. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/35 "2022-06-26T08:14:56Z")
Friendly reminder: Judges do not make laws. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/36 "2022-06-26T09:26:26Z")
I wonder how long until bombings and the like start … it’s easier to make groups now than it was in the 60s and eventually, there will be one that will rack up casualties … ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/37 "2022-06-26T10:54:52Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Friendly reminder: > > Judges do not make laws. Only people who don’t actually understand the common law system, or who want people to misunderstand it, say this. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/38 "2022-06-26T11:28:55Z")
Restricting individual rights in many states could fit into a Republican strategy for permanent minority rule: > **[Josh Hawley says abortion ruling will push people to move states,...](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article262849238.html)** > > “I would look for Republicans as a result of this to extend their strength in the Electoral College,” Hawley said. “And that’s very good news.” ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/39 "2022-06-26T11:29:47Z")
I am wondering about these “bounty laws” that try to forbid women from leaving the state to seek abortions. Are there not a whole host of laws allowing free travel between states? This seems to be a cornerstone of the concept of a “United States”. There is also the constitutional Commerce Clause itself, which says that Congress has the power to regulate commerce between states. Doesn’t that mean only Congress could forbid me travelling to another state to obtain a legal service in that state I cannot obtain in my state? So in theory, I suppose, Congress itself could enact a law forbidding interstate travel to obtain an abortion (and I wouldn’t put it past the Republicans to do just this if they regain control of Congress) but at the moment it seems those laws are entirely unconstitutional. I have testified on many OWI cases in my career, and I had a couple interesting ones where the drinking age in our state was 21 but in neighboring Canada it was (at the time) 19. A 20-year-old goes to Canada, legally drinks a few, comes back over the border and is arrested for OWI. His BAC was over the legal limit, so the OWI charge was legit, but the prosecutor declined to charge him with minor-in-possession, which they typically did for underage drinkers. He said that since the drinking was legal where it occurred, that charge would not stand up in court. It seems to me a similar logic would have to apply with interstate travel to obtain a medical service that is legal in the state you are travelling to. I do not see how these bounty laws remain constitutional unless there is a law at the federal level forbidding interstate travel for a specific purpose (abortions in this case). And if Congress does THAT…holy crap, what a shitstorm of a precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/40 "2022-06-26T12:05:47Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Personally, I’m hoping Mitch McConnell (a Baptist) keels over from a stroke tomorrow. Isn’t it a sad state of affairs, such that so many ostensibly benign folk are moved to wish death on others? IMO, term limits is the biggest no-brainer in terms of Constitutional tweaks needed. Has any president had a greater impact on the court than Trump in his one term? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843.md?page=3)