# The Supreme Court isn't done: Watch and see a lot of individual rights fall **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843 "2022-06-25T15:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/101 "2022-06-29T01:51:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Insofar as the People get to decide, not judges, yes. You’re saying that you approve of the way the judges made this decision because you don’t think judges should be making this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/102 "2022-06-29T01:54:08Z")
As much as I hate to say it, D\_Anconia has a point. The Tenth Amendment does say “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” which implies that since the Constitution doesn’t say anything about same sex marriage or miscegenation or abortion or sex between consenting adults or the Sega Dreamcast then none of these things are actually protected rights. In all honesty, it really shouldn’t be the Supreme Court giving us these rights with tenuous interpretations of the Constitution. Does that mean the Court should blatantly overturn precedent and get rid of these rights? No. Does this mean Congress didn’t have a responsibility to enshrine Roe in legislation at some point in the last 50+ years? Also no. Same goes for interracial marriage, and contraception, and same-sex marriage, and everything else this conservative court wants to sweep away as Constitutional rights. All these things should be allowed by law passed by Congress, or better yet enumerated in a constitutional amendment that more explicitly grants them as inalienable rights than the 14th amendment. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/103 "2022-06-29T01:55:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The problem started when the coach, as an agent of the government, started establishing religion. The Court addressed the Establish Clause issues on pp 20-31. A government employee is not establishing a religion by using his Free Exercise rights. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/104 "2022-06-29T01:59:56Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Back to the state governments. Nonetheless it was a reduction in Federal power, which was the technical point I was making vis a vis the 9th and 10th Amendments. You have it backwards. This wasn’t about a power held by the federal government. The Roe decision had already eliminated that power back in 1973. The Dobbs decision took a power that had been denied to both the federal government and state governments and gave it back to them. This decision increased Federal power along with state power. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/105 "2022-06-29T02:01:40Z")
No, the Justices themselves said that they shouldn’t be the one to make the law. The decision is up to the People. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/106 "2022-06-29T02:03:30Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, the Justices themselves said that they shouldn’t be the one to make the law. The decision is up to the People You just said judges shouldn’t make that decision. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/107 "2022-06-29T02:05:20Z")
Your posts are getting circular. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/108 "2022-06-29T02:05:53Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Your posts are getting circular Quoting you does that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/109 "2022-06-29T02:21:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You have it backwards. This wasn’t about a power held by the federal government. The Roe decision had already eliminated that power back in 1973. Please explain this. AFAIK, Roe said that the states cannot flatly ban abortion, giving federal judges and courts authority to overrule any state attempting to do so. How was that _eliminating_ a **federal** power? ETA: afaik there were no federal laws criminalizing abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/110 "2022-06-29T02:26:17Z")
Federal courts are exercising federal powers under Article III. If they set aside state restrictions on abortion based on the federal constitution, that is a federal power. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/111 "2022-06-29T02:55:53Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Please explain this. AFAIK, Roe said that the states cannot flatly ban abortion, giving federal judges and courts authority to overrule any state attempting to do so. How was that _eliminating_ a **federal** power? ETA: afaik there were no federal laws criminalizing abortion. Prior to Roe, governments (both states and federal) had the power to ban all abortions. After Roe, they did not. That clearly was a reduction in government power. The Dobbs decision gave that power back to the government. While most of the focus has been on state governments, there have been Congressmen saying they will seek to enact a federal ban on abortions if the Republicans win a majority in Congress. > **[CONGRESSMAN GOOD INTRODUCES HOUSE RESOLUTION 1167 TO DISCHARGE H.R. 1011, THE...](https://good.house.gov/media/press-releases/congressman-good-introduces-house-resolution-1167-discharge-hr-1011-life)** > > WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Congressman Bob Good (R-VA), led a group of 60 House conservatives in introducing a resolution to discharge H.R. 1011, the Life at Conception Act (Rep. Mooney, R-WV) for immediate consideration by the House of... ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/112 "2022-06-29T03:01:12Z")
If the federal government ever had the power (even if unused) to ban abortion, that’s news to me. The Interstate Commerce Clause notwithstanding, the federal government doesn’t automatically have authority over anything it wants to. I thought abortion was strictly a state matter prior to Roe. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/113 "2022-06-29T03:46:11Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > If the federal government ever had the power (even if unused) to ban abortion, that’s news to me. The Interstate Commerce Clause notwithstanding, the federal government doesn’t automatically have authority over anything it wants to. I thought abortion was strictly a state matter prior to Roe. As I noted, there has already been a bill introduced in Congress to outlaw abortions at a federal level. So apparently there are Congressmen who think the federal government can do this. And the current Supreme Court seems motivated more by an ideological agenda than legal principles so I wouldn’t count of them to say no. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/114 "2022-06-29T03:53:42Z")
> **[Neil Gorsuch to Non-Christian Kids Who Don’t Want Prayer in Public School:...](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/neil-gorsuch-to-non-christian-kids-who-don-t-want-prayer-in-public-school-get-over-it/ar-AAYXUsY?ocid=BingHp05&cvid=5e3ad2d59efc4339cb68e1fb592af06e)** > > Religious minorities do not matter to this Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/115 "2022-06-29T12:26:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Court addressed the Establish Clause issues on pp 20-31. A government employee is not establishing a religion by using his Free Exercise rights. Correct; he’s not establishing a religion by using his Free Exercise rights. He’s only establishing a religion when he uses his authority over others to induce them to worship. Had he stuck to just exercising his own rights, and not do that, there wouldn’t have been a problem. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/116 "2022-06-29T13:22:46Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > In all honesty, it really shouldn’t be the Supreme Court giving us these rights with tenuous interpretations of the Constitution. Does that mean the Court should blatantly overturn precedent and get rid of these rights? No. Does this mean Congress didn’t have a responsibility to enshrine Roe in legislation at some point in the last 50+ years? Also no. Same goes for interracial marriage, and contraception, and same-sex marriage, and everything else this conservative court wants to sweep away as Constitutional rights. All these things should be allowed by law passed by Congress How well would a law hold up, enshrining said rights. All it takes is a change in govt makeup for a couple of years to strip them all away. I would argue that a SCOTUS decision typically would have _more_ staying power than legislations, as SCOTUS has historically not changed precedent based on political pressures, until now. > [@Mr.E](#): > > or better yet enumerated in a constitutional amendment that more explicitly grants them as inalienable rights than the 14th amendment. Yeah, unfortunately, that will never happen. The amendment process is a bit harder to do, and it’s not up to congress to ratify it even if they pass it by the required thresholds. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/117 "2022-06-29T14:10:49Z")
Not sure if this is the right thread, so apologies for the potential hijack. When a woman in Kansas (or another state that’s banned all abortions regardless of the health of the mother) dies from complications of an ectopic pregnancy that should have been terminated, will her family be able to successfully sue the state? IANAL, but ISTM that preventing women from having a recommended procedure that’s considered standard care elsewhere would leave a state vulnerable to damages in a case like this. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/118 "2022-06-29T14:32:31Z")
No, that wouldn’t work. If the state has the ability to ban a procedure then it has no further liability. You can’t sue the state for that unless it’s a fundamental right that has been denied. The Supreme Court has already said it’s not a fundamental right under the U.S. Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/119 "2022-06-29T14:38:58Z")
So let me see if I have this straight. AFAIK, coronary bypass surgery is also not a fundamental right under the U.S. Constitution. If Illinois banned coronary bypasses and I died needing one, the legal remedy would be “tough shit”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843/120 "2022-06-29T14:42:13Z")
That is correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-isnt-done-watch-and-see-a-lot-of-individual-rights-fall/966843.md?page=7)