# The Supreme Court of Canada takes trafficking in maple syrup very seriously! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 1, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077 "2022-04-01T00:54:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/1 "2022-04-01T00:54:36Z")
Apparently there is a black market in maple syrup in Quebec. Who knew? Well, Richard Vallières, it seems. He managed to organise a theft of maple syrup with a street value of $18 million! He got caught and the question was the penalty. The Criminal Code allows for a fine based on the amount stolen. The trial court fined him $10 million, because that was the total value of what he managed to steal. No, no, he said, he said on appeal. Ten million was the _ **gross** _ value, but I had a long distribution list, with different people taking their share. I only _ **netted** _ $1 million, so that’s what the fine should be. Well, okay, says the court of appeal. Fine is reduced based on a net profit of $1 million. Not so fast, says the Supreme Court of Canada. Fine is based on gross, not net (less some adjustments for a few details). Total fine: $9.1 million. And don’t you be trying that fancy accounting stuff again! > **[Maple syrup thief must pay $9.1M fine, Supreme Court rules | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/maple-syrup-heist-fine-supreme-court-1.6403757)** > > Canada's top court found the Quebec Court of Appeal was wrong to reduce the fine imposed on Richard Vallières, one of the men responsible for the theft and trafficking of 9,500 barrels of syrup from a Quebec warehouse a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/2 "2022-04-01T02:10:15Z")
Innerestin’. In more detail, does the Crim Code give any indication about whether fines are allowed to be set this way to: - compensate the victim, or - prevent criminals from profiting from their crime? Seems to me that’s the crux of it. If it’s the first reason the decision makes sense. But if it’s the second reason then as a matter of logic "net’ seems correct. ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/3 "2022-04-01T05:48:37Z")
Don’t forget - deterrence ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/4 "2022-04-01T06:02:16Z")
I thought about that but deterrence has always been the aim of fines, and the value of the crime has always been a discretionary factor taken into account when setting a fine. So I’m assuming this specific provision allowing fines to be set on the basis of the amount stolen is intended differently. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/5 "2022-04-01T12:11:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > No, no, he said, he said on appeal. Ten million was the _ **gross** _ value, but I had a long distribution list, with different people taking their share. I only _ **netted** _ $1 million, so that’s what the fine should be. > > Well, okay, says the court of appeal. Fine is reduced based on a net profit of $1 million. > > Not so fast, says the Supreme Court of Canada. Fine is based on gross, not net (less some adjustments for a few details). So would every person who was involved in the theft also be eligible for a $10 million fine? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/6 "2022-04-01T12:56:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Not so fast, says the Supreme Court of Canada. Well, at least they didn’t waffle on the ruling. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/7 "2022-04-01T13:05:11Z")
What a sap! ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/8 "2022-04-01T14:13:16Z")
This is a sticky situation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/9 "2022-04-01T14:35:00Z")
Seems like Canada takes their maple syrup seriously, what with the 94,000 barrel “strategic reserve.” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/10 "2022-04-01T14:42:31Z")
> [@Police probing Quebec maple syrup heist worth up to $30-million](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/police-probing-quebec-maple-syrup-heist-worth-up-to-30-million/633226/99): > > [The Mounties always get their man](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/3-arrests-massive-canada-maple-syrup-theft)! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/11 "2022-04-01T17:52:18Z")
Maybe he should have tried buttering up the trial judge more. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/12 "2022-04-01T19:23:44Z")
Sounds like the defendant was barking up the wrong tree. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/13 "2022-04-01T19:29:08Z")
Does this mean he’s come to a sticky end? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/14 "2022-04-02T03:16:51Z")
Sweet! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/15 "2022-04-02T19:25:05Z")
No passes for grasses passing off molasses? The decision makes sense to me. Not really because you are taking the thief at his word. But more because if you are selling stuff which fell out of a van or whatever, you are probably doing so cheaply to get rid off it fast, no? That does not mean it is value is the price sold. (I do not buy stuff out of vans, but I did enjoy _Only Fools And Horses_.) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/16 "2022-04-04T03:05:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Seems like Canada takes their maple syrup seriously, what with the 94,000 barrel “strategic reserve.” Ssssst! We’re not allowed to talk about the s(€\*\*,.# fg~\>\>\>\>. . a^ \*\* Carrier lost \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/17 "2022-04-04T18:48:28Z")
Sweet, sticky justice, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-supreme-court-of-canada-takes-trafficking-in-maple-syrup-very-seriously/962077/18 "2022-04-04T23:54:05Z")
They take the strategic reserve very seriously too. I wonder if the thieves considered dressing up like pancakes or woodpeckers?