# The tasing of the naked wizard **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264 "2009-04-24T20:28:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/121 "2009-04-26T16:46:00Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Great idea, it’s not like the police have anything better to do than sit in an office babysitting someone for hours until they decide to calm down. Of course, she may never decide to calm down since the police go away when she yells at them. > > I actually know a SUPER SECRET way to prevent the police from tasing you, when they arrest you, and handcuff you and tell you to sit down so they can process you… you don’t say “No, tase me.”, you sit down. > > Law Enforcement, for better or for worse, must have the ability to force people to comply with their orders, that is the entire point of “enforcement”, and it’s a necessary function of society. Officers, being human beings, are occasionally going to do something stupid and wrong and issue bad orders. That doesn’t change the fact that once they give you an order, legal or not, they’re going to follow through, and you will either comply, be forced to comply, or be arrested, the only question is which one. Bottom line is that you shouldn’t be able to shock someone because they’re annoying you. The girl was in handcuffs and completely harmless. We as a society should accept that there are people who act annoying sometimes and we have to deal with it without resorting to electricity. Imagine if parents tased their kids for being annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/122 "2009-04-26T16:58:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m not saying this, or any other individual tasing was justified, I’m saying it NEVER seems to happen unless the “victim” has been acting like a complete ass and refusing to comply with an officer’s perfectly legal demands. What about people who decline to abide by a request when they’re not breaking the law, such as the guy filming the police searching his neighbors home without a warrant? [http://nationalexpositor.com/News/520.html](http://nationalexpositor.com/News/520.html) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/123 "2009-04-26T17:01:15Z")
I think I should have added that my link is to a (small) pdf. **cheesesteak** people being arrested are occasionally complete asses? Who’s have thunk it? Tasers use is on par with beating someone up (at least as much pain) and police are not allowed to do that to someone already in custody just because the subject is a complete ass who won’t shut up. Yet in the real world they can deny they did it more with a Taser than with a person who has pictures of bruises that they received. That is real world abuse that occurs because the Taser is there that would likely not have happened if the leave no mark Taser was not present. Tasers are also expensive. I would think the burden is upon those who promote their use that they provide enough benefit to support their wide deployment. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/124 "2009-04-26T17:21:27Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] In any event, keep an eye peeled for the Straight Dope in a couple of weeks. [/QUOTE] Most definitely will do that. By any chance, did you get a chance to look at the study from UCSF that Red Barchetta posted up thread? Almost all of the anti-taser articles I was looking through revolved around that one study and it’s findings. Any thoughts on the study? Do you think Cecil will include info from that study in his article? Just curious about his and your take on it. [QUOTE=picker] Everyone seems to have ignored my question. Why wouldn’t pepper spray be used as a method of incapacitating the detainee first? I can’t imagine it’s less effective, and I’m pretty sure it’s less potentially harmful in general. [/QUOTE] I meant to comment on it last night but it completely slipped my mind in the alcohol haze (at least I didn’t run out naked and get tasered though). Correct me if I’m wrong here…but the naked guy in the OP wasn’t harmed in any case…was he? So, it seems to me (assuming I have that part right) that it would have been a wash for the polices. The difference would have been that instead of a video showing police brutalizing a poor naked man with a taser we’d have had one of them hosing down said naked dude with pepper spray…which would have probably gotten nearly the same marks on the outrage scale (‘Why did they have to pepper spray that dude?!? Why didn’t they just do \?? He was naked and helpless, blah blah blah…’). And of course I suppose there would always have been the outside possibility that this guy was allergic to the pepper spray, or would have freaked out on getting hit with it and harmed himself, etc etc. Optimally, I think the police should have simply tried to cuff the guy and take him away. But I think the fact that he was nude played a role in them not wanting to get physical with him (how would THAT have looked on YouTube?? ;)). -XT ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/125 "2009-04-26T17:57:55Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > In defense of the knee-drop, he wasn’t doing it for his jollies; it’s a relatively harmless technique used to get someone to turn over. The mind-boggling thing is that it worked, but for some unfathomable reason all 3 cops–their powers combined-- still couldn’t cuff him. I’d rather take 20 of those knees in a row than 3 seconds of tasing, which carries some random chance of death just as an added bonus on top of sucking hairy, shit-stained goat asshole. Because they didn’t want to touch the naked guy. I think a lot of the problem they had dealing with the guy was due to his nudity and their reluctance to have to touch the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/126 "2009-04-26T18:14:18Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Because they didn’t want to touch the naked guy. I think a lot of the problem they had dealing with the guy was due to his nudity and their reluctance to have to touch the guy. If true (and I’m not assuming it is), that’s just ridiculously immature on their part. These are guys who have to handle shit, blood, cum, spit, piss, mung, and god knows what else in the line of duty but they don’t want to touch a naked dude’s skin? They’re SO reluctant to do so that they’d rather taze him? Reminds me of my friend who wouldn’t get in the back seat of my car because my wife left a tampon back there . . . STILL IN THE PACKAGE! ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/127 "2009-04-26T18:44:56Z")
What sort of asshole puts a taser to a naked harmless guy? Were they threatened by his micropenis? In a civilised setting the correct thing would have been to have a laugh at him, take a picture and go about your business. If anyone deserves getting tasered it’s those porky bullies. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/128 "2009-04-26T19:39:37Z")
There’s another point I was reminded of by a poster in this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11078017#post11078017](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11078017#post11078017) > [@I saw a dead man today.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-saw-a-dead-man-today/494385/6): > > Wow. I can’t wait to hear the results of the investigation. > > My first impression is that the officer **used his sidearm when he meant to use his Taser**. It’s happened a few times over the years. That’s why I carry mine opposite of my pistol, so I can’t draw it with my strong hand accidentally. Obviously, we don’t know whether that’s the case or not yet; however, this wouldn’t be the first time that has been demonstrated (or used as an excuse–it’s admittedly hard to tell). Those from the Bay Area surely remember the uproar just a few months ago over an officer who shot someone on Bart, who used the “I thought it was a taser” defense. I don’t know how often this has occurred, Thalion seems to believe it’s happened a few times. All I know is that it’s good deal more difficult to mistake a club or pepper spray with a gun than it is a taser. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/129 "2009-04-26T19:44:27Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Those from the Bay Area surely remember the uproar just a few months ago over an officer who shot someone on Bart, who used the “I thought it was a taser” defense. Has he officially claimed that defense? Til now I’ve only heard armchair authoritarians use it on his behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/130 "2009-04-26T19:46:02Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Has he officially claimed that defense? Til now I’ve only heard armchair authoritarians use it on his behalf. According to his lawyer: > [@](#): > > The BART police officer charged with murdering 22-year-old Oscar Grant III at the Fruitvale station New Year’s Day intended to fire a Taser at Grant when he instead pulled his service pistol, the officer’s attorney wrote in court papers filed before a bail hearing Friday. [http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci\_11592317?source=most\_emailed](http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_11592317?source=most_emailed) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/131 "2009-04-26T19:54:50Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > According to his lawyer: > > [http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci\_11592317?source=most\_emailed](http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_11592317?source=most_emailed) Okay . . . possible, I guess, only because I can’t comprehend why he would so cold-bloodedly murder someone in front of such a crowd, but it still leaves the question of why he would taser a guy who is face down on the floor, surrounded by cops, and not armed or resisting. I don’t want to get too sidetracked, but it seems a little relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/132 "2009-04-26T19:58:04Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Okay . . . possible, I guess, only because I can’t comprehend why he would so cold-bloodedly murder someone in front of such a crowd, but it still leaves the question of why he would taser a guy who is face down on the floor, surrounded by cops, and not armed or resisting. Good question! Which, assuming he actually did mistake the gun for a taser, loops back to my original point that tasers are being used in situations where they’re uncalled for. And it’s especially unfortunate if/when guns have been mistakenly deployed instead. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/133 "2009-04-26T22:22:58Z")
[Grim Statistics – Taser Deaths Keep Rising | Five Husbands](http://fivehusbands.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/grim-statistics-taser-deaths/) This article puts it at 367 last August. I will not quibble because I read the article saying 400. It is not out of line. I just want the cops to show a little respect for Tasering. Some seem to be taser happy. I have heard of people being tasered multiple times. If it incapacitates, why do we have to nail a guy 5 times? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/134 "2009-04-27T00:23:15Z")
I just got back from a party where a prosecutor was telling everyone how he loves talking to the cops right after they taser people and listening to them make fun of the perps, talk about how fun it is, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/135 "2009-04-27T01:13:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Most definitely will do that. By any chance, did you get a chance to look at the study from UCSF that Red Barchetta posted up thread? Almost all of the anti-taser articles I was looking through revolved around that one study and it’s findings. Any thoughts on the study? Do you think Cecil will include info from that study in his article? Just curious about his and your take on it. I looked at the study - I think the study is somewhat limited due to its tight geographic focus, as well as the self-selection of only using data from police departments who gave complete responses within their small subset (in fact, the study authors note this as two major failings of their work). This quote from the study itself is somewhat damning - on Page 879: > [@](#): > > First, we did not ask law enforcement agencies for details about the reported in-custody deaths, and specifically we did not ask whether the Taser had actually been applied in those incidents. It is likely that the Taser was used only in a subset of these deaths. However, we controlled for non-Taser–related incustody sudden deaths by using each department’s historic data for comparison. So **they didn’t even ask if the Taser had actually been used in those incidents?** _Really?_ On your other query, I know Cecil looked at the UCSF study, but I cannot answer if he thought it was worth including as a specific item to call out. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/136 "2009-04-27T02:56:26Z")
Tasers (according to presentation from their CEO that I sat through); - Reduce office shootings (since they have something else to use) - Reduce officer injuries (since they don’t have to wrestle with people). Taser’s site has .pdfs of several police dept. review of the use. Now, these are the positive spins - but I thought that some of you might find this interesting. [http://www.taser.com/RESEARCH/STATISTICS/Pages/FieldUseandStatistics.aspx](http://www.taser.com/RESEARCH/STATISTICS/Pages/FieldUseandStatistics.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/137 "2009-04-27T03:20:26Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If I may bring a few facts to this discussion for those who don’t have me on Ignore… > > It may be of interest to some of you that Cecil is going to tackle the topic of Tasers in about 2 weeks, after he tackles the topic of Pit bulls. Did you investigate alternate methods of making people cooperate? It seems worth pointing out that people in similar states of ill-health can die from other treatments as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/138 "2009-04-27T03:23:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And yes **picker** pepper spray seems like it should be utilized more. But [pepper spray kills people!](http://mediafilter.org/caq/caq56pepper.html) ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/139 "2009-04-27T03:58:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Did you investigate alternate methods of making people cooperate? It seems worth pointing out that people in similar states of ill-health can die from other treatments as well. Not really myself, but it’s very possible Cecil or some other assistant did. But keep in mind as well it’s a big subject, and it’s hard for the Big Guy to fit everything he wants to say into 800 words. ---
**Author:** ![auburntiger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bbe5ce/32.png) [@auburntiger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auburntiger11)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264/140 "2009-04-27T04:50:49Z")
Man if only that guy what have just done what they told him to begin with? I am sure they were dealing with this guy several minutes before the camera came and they put up with him a several minutes after that. This situation was only going downhill and it was obvious that unless the cops had waited until the guy wasnt drunk that he was going to do anything they told him. They also had to put up with a very angry crowd. To be honest with you, the idiot got what he deserved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tasing-of-the-naked-wizard/494264.md?page=8)