I was pretty shocked the first time I saw the video, but after thinking it over and rewatching it, I’m not convinced the cops did anything wrong. It seems like a gross overreaction because the original crime (nudity) is so minor and should probably have been ignored in that setting if no one was complaining. But compare it to a minor traffic offense. Failing to use a turn signal or speeding by just 5 m.p.h. is a very minor offense, but what do you suppose would happen to me if I refused to pull over after being caught? The original offense might be extremely minor, but leading the cops on a car chase is major. So is resisting arrest. In that video the guy kept fighting and trying to flee even after being tackled and tased several times. I don’t know if the cops were following their training or if tasering is an appropriate response, but I think the cops were justified in responding to that guy with whatever level of force would be used against anyone physically resisting arrest, and I’m pretty sure that’s either a physical take-down or a taser.
Unless of course those actions happen to be “agreeing to / not saying no to sex” in which case it becomes rape…
Naked men so helpless? The following is a quote from kirotv.com about the killing of a local policeman here in the Seattle area (actually, a Sheriff’s Deputy) back in June 2002.
Almost anything can happen when things get physical. If you want to be an asshole with the cops, be prepared to take the consequences.
We probably all agree that resisting an illegal request by a cop should not result in repercussions, be it a taser, a beat-down, or a night in the cooler. But your scenario has little bearing on the situation in the OP. The man was breaking a law (albeit minor), refused to comply with the law, and finally resisted arrest. The cops should have warned him he was about to be tasered but I have no sympathy.
Which is why it was a response to a specific poster. :rolleyes:
After watching the video
- The taser was used purely to inflict pain to get Mr Nude to comply
- It didn’t work very well initially - even after 2 or 3 taserings they still couldn’t get the cuffs on
- I was a bit surprised that while the taser certainly “dropped” the Wizard, it didn’t actually incapacitate him (as in make him easy to manhandle)
Using the taser as a compliance device is wrong - there was no threat to anybody here. There was no time pressure (unless the cops were hungry and wanted to rush to their next jelly donut). There was no particular reason why a resolution had to be reached right now.
More negotiation would have been appropriate, cajoling, talking, threatening. Hell - even a bit more of a determined effort to cuff him - the first try looked a bit half assed to me. And yes, I do know how difficult it is to subdue someone in that situation.
Why is it wrong to use a taser as a compliance device? Is this just your assertion in regards to the question of whether to use tasing versus tackling and submission holds, or is there another principle here?
How much negotiation, cajoling, talking, and threatening is appropriate for someone resisting arrest? How long did these officers spend negotiating, cajoling, talking, or threatening and how do you know?
What should happen to someone who persists in struggling with cops while resisting arrest?
I believe that he should probably have been left alone to begin with, but once the police engaged him, he had an obligation to comply, and the consequence of failing to comply will and must be severely unpleasant.
Its just my bald arse assertion - I just don’t see that “inflicting pain” in and of itself is a particularly good way to handle any situation. If the taser had somehow stunned him for long enough to get the cuffs on - fine. Looking at the video though it was more a case of - “here take this punishment and then see if you wish to comply”. How many times did they actually tase him - anybody get a count?
How long should they negotiate? Well, given that nobody was in danger, there was no particular hazard - as long as it takes. Hell, the Wizard wasn’t hurting anybody (unles you think that massive schlong was gonna whack someone and cause a concussion)
Fair enough. I pretty much assumed that the reason for tasering was to get the cuffs on and it just failed because he was particularly drugged out and persistent. I agree that cops shouldn’t use punishment or pain “in and of itself.” I just have no particular problem with cops causing large amounts of incidental pain under some circumstances.
At the end of the concert should they have followed him home to continue the debate or just given up at that point?
I suppose I could see getting ID from him and just issuing a summons, but I don’t think he had any ID on him. Again, being naked is a minor and trivial offense, but resisting arrest is NOT. Once the decision has been made to arrest someone, I think the cops are pretty much justified in doing whatever it takes to arrest them (but no more), as long as it doesn’t harm or endanger innocent bystanders or lead to death.
When I posted earlier, I wanted to give a heads-up for anyone interested that Cecil would be covering this (in about 1.5 weeks now). I hadn’t seen the video in the OP because I was from a computer which couldn’t play it (for whatever reason; I fucking hate this computer).
Now that I have seen it, I’ll preface by repeating - I’m generally opposed to Tasers, and I believe that they are too often used improperly and abusively. However, the “tasing of the naked wizard” appeared justified to me. The police gave him more than enough opportunities to just put on his fucking robe and enjoy the show, they did negotiate with him, they were not aggressive towards him (at first.) For whatever reason he was an oppositional-defiant jackass who was ignoring police orders and in violation of the law. So nudity hurts no one - then change the law, don’t break it and ignore and taunt the police when they come to tell you to put clothes on. Jesus - that guy in the video, I swear about 20 different permutations of him post on the SDMB under different names…
I’ve seen far, far less justified tasings than this case. However, even if I personally feel this case was justified, that does not change my opinion that they are over-used and should have their use much more restricted.
This blog appears to be quite misleading and the information appears to be taken from another blog that also wants you to believe that these people died as a result of being tasered, when in fact, the author admits that they died proximately to police taser use and, further, notes that in many cases the coroner’s reported CODs attributed to drug toxicity.
While I don’t disagree with your opinion it appears that stupid naked guy would rather be tased. He made a choice and the video recorded it.
You mean whacked-out-of-his-skull-probably-couldn’t-tell-you-his-mother’s-name naked guy.
In order to cuff him they would have had to use force to get him to comply. Getting a squirming 250 lb man on his stomach is dam near impossible to do without inflicting pain in the process. Nothing has changed with the use of the taser.
What leads you to this conclusion? He was trying to carry on a coherent conversation with the police.Kidding?
No I’m not kidding. He wasn’t staggering around and his words were coherent. Show me where he was whacked out. He looks and acts like a typical “the human body is a beautiful thing” flower-child-hippy to me.
This is just “don’t tase me bro” with a pony tail.
Never been around an intoxicated person?
Again, he wasn’t staggering so I don’t understand this line of thought. You referred to him as a whacked-out-of-his-skull-probably-couldn’t-tell-you-his-mother’s-name naked guy. I spent many hours in a bar in my youth and I know intoxicated when I see it. At most he’s a hippy with a slight buzz.
A person walking around naked wants attention so IMO this guy wanted his 15 minutes of fame. He was playing to a cheering crowd. Maybe he needed sympathy for his penis. Hard to say.
I’m no expert on observing intoxication or mental impairment (other than textual), but IMO the guy looked and acted…well, intoxicated and/or mentally impaired. YMMV.
In any event, you have to have some sort of intoxication or mental impairment to not recognize when the police have had enough, and happy hippy fun time is over. Regardless of the fairness, or even legality, there comes a time when you have to realize the unalterable fact of “if I continue to be oppositional to these police officers, I am going to pay for it, and it’s going to hurt.” He failed to realize that, and I think that failure is indicative of his mental state.
As I’ve said, I’ve seen and read of far more egregious Taserings.