# The Taxonomy of Manliness - an Observation **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 12, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173 "2010-05-12T15:01:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/1 "2010-05-12T15:01:02Z")
I suspect that this has been done somewhere on line and I am simply not aware of it… I am trying to work with my pre-teen son about these very important facts. There’s a lot to cover. In my observation: - You can be a **Dude** , but not be a **Stand Up Guy**. - A \*\*Bro \*\*is often not a **Stand Up Guy** , but he’s a \*\*Dude \*\*because he’s your **Bro** - You must be a \*\*Stand Up Guy \*\*in order to be a **Mensch** , but you gotta be a \*\*Man \*\*along with being a \*\*Stand Up Guy \*\*in order to be a **Mensch**. Maybe even a **Man’s Man**. - A \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\*is rarely a **Mensch** , nor is a \*\*Player \*\*(or **Playa** ) - either can be a **Bro** , but are often not **Stand Up Guys** - A \*\*Mensch \*\*can be a **Badass** , but a \*\*Badass \*\*isn’t necessarily a **Mensch** , because a \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\*can be a \*\*Badass \*\*while not being a **Mensch**. And **Dudes are rarely Badasses. Except for The Dude**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/2 "2010-05-12T15:11:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Except for\*\* The Dude\*\*. 😉 Who, of course, abides. And I forgot to ask, are we talking BSD as maybe coined by Michael Lewis in Liar’s Poker, or some other definition? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/3 "2010-05-12T15:17:30Z")
I’ll be watching _The Big Lebowski_ for the first time this weekend. Between this and that I should then certainly have a better grip on Dudeshness. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/4 "2010-05-12T15:33:10Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Who, of course, abides. > > And I forgot to ask, are we talking BSD as maybe coined by Michael Lewis in Liar’s Poker, or some other definition? Exactly, Dude. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/5 "2010-05-12T15:39:56Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Exactly, Dude. I’m trying to recall if anyone who sold a lot of bonds and made a bunch of money was a BSD, or if only those who lorded those facts over non-BSDs were called BSDs. If the latter, then I would have to say that a BSD can never be a mensch. A quibble, of course, which probably makes me a **Weenie**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/6 "2010-05-12T15:45:26Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I’m trying to recall if anyone who sold a lot of bonds and made a bunch of money was a BSD, or if only those who lorded those facts over non-BSDs were called BSDs. If the latter, then I would have to say that a BSD can never be a mensch. A quibble, of course, which probably makes me a **Weenie**. 😃 A Big Swinging Dick is someone who could close a big deal - in Lewis’s case, he was able to place a traunch of collateralized bonds to the tune of over ~$70mm IIRC…so it is a Sales/Closing thing - could be very Glengarry, Glenross. You could be a \*\*Weasel \*\*or even a **Snake** , but if you can close like a **Playa** , you can end up a \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\*- but not get close to being a **Mensch** … ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/7 "2010-05-12T15:47:33Z")
Still trying to get everything straight. Are the adjectives interchangable? Just wondering which is preferable, to be a **Weenie** or a **Stand Up Weenie**. This can be very confusing. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/8 "2010-05-12T15:48:33Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Still trying to get everything straight. Are the adjectives interchangable? Just wondering which is preferable, to be a **Weenie** or a **Stand Up Weenie**. This can be very confusing. Especially explaining it to a 12-year-old. Stand Up Weenie takes on a whole new meaning during puberty. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/9 "2010-05-12T15:56:04Z")
A \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\*_always_ lets everyone know just how big his dick is and just how wide it swings. **Men** , **Men’s Men** and **Mensches** just _are what they are_, and they don’t brag about it. So really, a \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\* is a **Whiny Little Bitch** at heart. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/10 "2010-05-12T16:45:49Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > A \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\*_always_ lets everyone know just how big his dick is and just how wide it swings. **Men** , **Men’s Men** and **Mensches** just _are what they are_, and they don’t brag about it. > > So really, a \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\* is a **Whiny Little Bitch** at heart. Dude. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/11 "2010-05-12T16:57:29Z")
Dudes self-examining their dudeliness seems circular. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/12 "2010-05-12T17:03:16Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Dudes self-examining their dudeliness seems circular. You say that like it’s a bad thing 😉 If The Dude knocks back a few White Russians, I expect a little circularity is par for the course… ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/13 "2010-05-12T17:16:33Z")
**Dudes** are full of doubt and confusion (especially confusion), so of course they question their own dudeliness. If they never questioned themselves, they would probably be **Big Swining Dicks**. Or even worse, **Douchebags**. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/14 "2010-05-12T17:19:18Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > **Dudes** are full of doubt and confusion (especially confusion), so of course they question their own dudeliness. If they never questioned themselves, they would probably be **Big Swining Dicks**. Or even worse, **Douchebags**. Great point - I think of a \*\*Douchebag \*\*as \*\*Weasel \*\*or a \*\*Snake \*\*who thinks of themselves as a **Big Swinging Dick** , but don’t have the stones to truly close the deal…or as a \*\*Big Swinging Dick \*\*who cultivates the air of a \*\*Renaissance Man \*\*without any of the actual \*\*Menschy \*\*gravity required… …all of which is very **Dude** -contemplatible…dude. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/15 "2010-05-12T18:14:05Z")
I agree that a **Douchebag** is a wannabe **Big Swinging Dick**. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/16 "2010-05-12T18:39:12Z")
A **Good Dude** is the same thing as a **Stand Up Guy** , right? Or is he closer to a **Mensch?** ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/17 "2010-05-12T18:42:58Z")
I think the former. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/18 "2010-05-12T19:17:52Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > A **Good Dude** is the same thing as a **Stand Up Guy** , right? Or is he closer to a **Mensch?** I agree with \*\*Boyo Jim \*\*- a \*\*Stand Up Guy \*\*can pay for your beer when you weren’t expecting it, or argue for your cause in a meeting. A \*\*Mensch \*\*is a **Man’s Man** who also has power and can help you figure out the right path as you move through Manliness. A bit of a **Rabbi** , or **Mentor** … ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/19 "2010-05-13T02:29:21Z")
What is the preferred noun used to quantify the state of being a dude? I like dude-ocity, but clearly the orthography needs work. In the meantime, where do **Rons** fit in? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173/20 "2010-05-13T02:34:40Z")
There’s dude-ishness, dudeliciousness; there’s dude, duder and dudest. There’s ‘more dudely’. And my favorite, “the quantum of dude”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-taxonomy-of-manliness-an-observation/539173.md?page=2)