# The Tea Party: Beliefs vs. goals vs. tactics... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871 "2010-04-04T01:24:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/41 "2010-04-04T18:01:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The comment was a joke And so was all the commentary you based on it, then. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/42 "2010-04-04T18:02:13Z")
I read **Sam** ’s cite, and although one could quibble with the analysis part (that’s always the case with polls), I don’t think the numbers are off-- they look like what I’ve seen in other polls. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/43 "2010-04-04T18:07:29Z")
Actually, I saw that poll in an article in [The Hill](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/90461-poll-tea-partyers-not-beholden-to-gop), which as far as I know is not partisan. The Winston group is described as “a Washington-based polling firm”. I had absolutely no idea about their political leanings. Even if they are right-leaning, so what? There are right-leaning polling firms, and left-leaning polling firms. So long as their methodology is correct, does it matter? I’ve seen people post results from the Daily Kos poll on here. Should we dismiss those from now on? > [@suyanyi](#): > > Must be sad to be that angry all the time. Well, you’ve come to the right place to find out. Just ask the other participants in this thread. Some of them have been angry for the entire decade I’ve been on this board. And the anger and hatred is flowing pretty freely in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/44 "2010-04-04T18:09:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Those of you who think they are crazy racists might want to consider something: > > The leaders on your side have a vested interest in marginalizing the tea party movement as much as possible. What “leaders” would those be? Obama pretty much ignores them. They marginalize themselves. They’re the ones with the racist signs, and the moronic complaints about birth certificates, “czars,” “freedoms” (what freedoms have these clowns had taken away from them?), “take our country back” (take it back from who?) screaming “nigger” and “faggot,” berating disabled people, etc. No Democratic leaders (and the adjective is “Democratic,” not “Democrat”) are making that stuff up. The baggers don’t need any help in marginalizing themselves. Maybe it would be different if they actually any kind of articulate, coherent, unified ideology or philosophy, but they don’t. It’s just a mish mash of generalized (mostly uninformed) anti-government hostility, belligerant, arm band religionism, social issue cranks (like gun nuts and pro-lifers), xenophobes, Islamophobes, homophobes, morons who think they’re being taxed more when they’re being taxed less, and yes, racists. Take all that suff away, and what’s really left? What are the core ideological principles of the teabagger movement? Opposition to the stim package? give me a break. I guarantee not one in 500 of these idiots has any idea what was in it (especially since polls show that support everything in it when its provisions are presented individually to them…same with HCR. They think they’re supposed to be against “Obamacare,” but when you ask them about each individual element they support every bit of it). They’re not FOR anything, and they’re not even really AGAINST anything that makes any sense. Teabaggers are primarily uneducated, rural, white Christian males (aka rednecks), whipped up into a hysterical, racist frenzy by the massive, right wing media complex in the US, perhaps to the unintentional detriment of the Republican Party. They have no more legitimacy, or even an honest beef, than WTO anarchists or drunk Spring Breakers. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/45 "2010-04-04T18:15:08Z")
Yes, that’s _exactly_ what the tea partiers are - in your fevered imagination. According to every poll of them I’ve seen (and according to the evidence I’ve gathered reading a LOT about the movement), reality doesn’t match your fantasy. The tea partiers are only slightly more white than average, and that’s probably just due to the geographic center of the movement between slightly west and north of the U.S. population geographic center. They’re only slightly more religious, and there’s a healthy percentage of secular members as well. One poll (The CNN poll, I think) showed them to be more educated than average. All the polls show them to be slightly wealthier than average, probably because it’s a middle-class movement without any urban poor in it. About the only group that’s heavily under-represented is urban Americans. It’s primarily a suburban/rural movement. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/46 "2010-04-04T18:27:08Z")
You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about, dude. There’s a recent Quinnipiac poll showing that they are overwhemingly white, rural, Christian males, who are LESS educated than the average. You’ve got your information wrong. I’ve also seen a teabag rally close up. I’m guessing you haven’t. The one I saw in Minneapolis (which I went to see just for the gawk factor) was exactly like the stereotypes – all white, lots of semi-literate signs, nonsensical slogans, overtly racist signs (and as much as you might want to kid yourself that the overt racism isn’t normative, none of the other teabaggers seemed to have any _problem_ with them. What was most striking to me was the complete lack of any coherent message. Some had signs about taxes or spending, but more had inane signs about birth certificates and “czars” and the like. If you think you can detect a coherent message from the teabaggers, please tell us what it is (and just FYI, it isn’t "fiscal responsibility, so don’t even try that. That sounds nice and safe, but if it was what was really driving them, then when were they during the Bush years? Their issue is “fiscal responsibility” like Vito Corleone was an “olive oil importer.” Even if that WERE their main issue, they would still be morons because Obama hasn’t been anything BUT responsible, unlike his predecessor. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/47 "2010-04-04T18:29:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Actually, I saw that poll in an article in [The Hill](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/90461-poll-tea-partyers-not-beholden-to-gop), which as far as I know is not partisan. The Winston group is described as “a Washington-based polling firm”. I had absolutely no idea about their political leanings… Took me about five seconds to find out. You were too busy? > [@](#): > > …Even if they are right-leaning, so what? There are right-leaning polling firms, and left-leaning polling firms. So long as their methodology is correct, does it matter?.. Well, that’s very different! You checked their methodology, and found it kosher? Pity you didn’t mention it, or offer the basis for your conclusions on their methodology. Unless, of course, you didn’t inquire as to their methodology at all, and are only offering a smokescreen to beat a hasty retreat. One would be hard pressed to imagine how you could have examined their methodology and yet never found out about their political biases. > [@](#): > > …I’ve seen people post results from the Daily Kos poll on here. Should we dismiss those from now on? Yes. Pretty sure you already did. Two bits says that if anyone has offered you a _Kos_ poll as proof, you were on it like a starving dog on a pork chop. Or a Canadian on a weak, watery, tasteless beer. Coors North. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/48 "2010-04-04T18:45:24Z")
[Digital Journal](http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/289821): > [@](#): > > Several polls are now out, assessing the demographics of the Tea Party Movement that largely agree the majority of its members are Republican, largely white, above the mean in age and income and voted for John McCain. > … > What Bloomberg observes from the poll is this: > “Tea Party supporters are likely to be older, white and male. Forty percent are age 55 and over, compared with 32 percent of all poll respondents; just 22 percent are under the age of 35, 79 percent are white, and 61 percent are men. Many are also Christian fundamentalists, with 44 percent identifying themselves as “born-again,” compared with 33 percent of all respondents.” IOW the recent GOP base. As for “the Democrat Party” needing to worry about them, oh, what the hell, [here’s Newsmax](http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/tea-party-poll-gop/2010/03/24/id/353759): > [@](#): > > Tea party activists may not be as helpful to Republican candidates in November Congressional elections as the party hopes. > > That’s the upshot of a new poll from Quinnipiac University. > > Respondents said that without a tea party candidate on the ballot, they would vote 44 to 39 percent in favor of Republicans over Democrats. > > But if there’s a tea party candidate on the ballot, the numbers go like this: 36 percent for Democrats, 25 percent for Republicans and 15 percent for tea party candidates. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/49 "2010-04-04T18:47:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Took me about five seconds to find out. You were too busy? He also said he was “joking”. Believe whatever you think his history leads you to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/50 "2010-04-04T18:49:40Z")
Let’s get some baggers on every ballot. I’ll sign the petitions. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/51 "2010-04-04T18:55:53Z")
…(gasps, clutches pearls)… May the Obama forgive you! ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/52 "2010-04-04T19:47:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > What makes them seem crazy? The fact that they didn’t care about the constitution or deficits until a democrat was in the white house. > > Another thing is that many are on welfare. Medicare, social security and/or unemployment insurance are not uncommon among the tea party members while they rail against socialism and welfare. > > Another is how histrionic the movement is. They act like minor legislative bills are the same thing as totalitarianism. They can’t tell the difference between Hitler & Stalin. They feel a democratic election is the same thing as a dictatorship. > > That article you posted said 96% were GOP or leaned GOP with 4% being democrat. That is not diverse. > > The main belief seems to be that democrats are bad. Like I said, these people weren’t protesting when Bush was in office. > > The goals they have seem to revolve around destroying socialism for everyone else, but keeping their own. Ask a tea party member about giving up their social security and medicare payments. > > Their tactics are also absurd. Histrionic comparisons to Stalinism seem like they will backfire for most independent voters. I was going to write my own response from scratch, but several of the points I was planning to make are here, so…(though of course, I will still go on and on in my own words as well;)) Most of the rhetoric I have heard from this faction takes the form of refusing to accept the results of our last presidential election and any legislation that comes out of the current, duly elected and/or appointed administration. Their approach and tactics are decidedly UNAmerican in nature, in that they seem to be advocating secession, on an individual if not mass level, from the Union because they disagree with the outcomes of our political process. That is NOT how our system works (the civil war decided that issue). Their tact is not simply to look towards the next election and rally as many to their pov as possible and “vote the bums out”, but to encourage active resistance and obstruction in the meantime, to the point of subtle or overt threats towards government officials and supporters of their “enemies”. As a result, they walk a very thin line between activists and terrorists. As a registered (Liberal/Progressive) Independent, I HOPE they split the Republican party and drive more and more folks away from their brand of “conservatism”…they might turn out to be the best thing to happen to US politics in a long while. 😃 And yeah, I know a (Republican) wolf in (an Independent) sheep’s clothing when I see one…Independent my ASS! :rolleyes: Most of these people are Republicans by any other name (who’ve swapped labels to try and deflect association with the failed party and its policies that got us INTO the current mess) Wow, where WERE they for 8 years of record level federal spending, unprecendented expansion of federal powers and size, and corruption in high places? Many of them were driving around with “I support our president” stickers and attacking any who questioned the Bush administration as “traitors”. :dubious: Bottom line, my perspective is that the bulk of this “movement” is composed of the same hypocrites and sore losers who whined, wrung their hands and engaged in the same sort of rhetoric throughout Clinton’s presidency..a bunch of paintywaists who just can’t STAND the fact that their “side” LOST and are determined to throw a 4 year (or longer) tantrum and break whatever they can until they get their way :mad: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/53 "2010-04-04T20:16:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Let’s get some baggers on every ballot. I’ll sign the petitions. More likely, you’ll see the battles in the GOP primaries, not the generals. Fox will try to get harder-right conservatives nominated by the party with an actual chance to win, but if that fails, they won’t try to sabotage a “reality-based” Republican in a close contest with a Democrat. Ailes isn’t crazy, but he knows the party base he’s trying to motivate is. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/54 "2010-04-04T20:58:37Z")
Well, to answer most of our questions, Fox News went out of their way to show us [the Tea Party coalition is a mixed group of diverse activists](http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/politics/2010/04/04/meet-faces-tea-party-tour/). ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/55 "2010-04-04T21:04:58Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Fox News went out of their way to show us [the Tea Party coalition is a mixed group of diverse activists](http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/politics/2010/04/04/meet-faces-tea-party-tour/). Huh, turns out [Republicans have a variety of different looking mugs too](http://www.gop.com/index.php/learn/republican_faces/). Coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/56 "2010-04-04T21:24:08Z")
On Tax Day last year, Beck went so far as to advertise ["FNC Tax Day Tea Parties](http://mediamatters.org/reports/200904080025). Note the sponsorship. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/57 "2010-04-04T21:34:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, naturally, my first thought was no way does **Sam** bring in a clearly partisan source as a cite, he just wouldn’t do something like that. > > Thanks for clearing that up! Well, that would be a step above his usual tactic of citing a source that doesn’t say what he claims it says. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/58 "2010-04-04T21:35:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > For insight into the question “Who the hell are these people, anyway?”, I offer the excellent article in the _New York Review of Books_, by Johnathan Raban. I have long been a fan of Mr. Raban’s work, and this is no exception. Joe Bob \*\*'luc \*\*says “Check it out!” > > [At the Tea Party | Jonathan Raban | The New York Review of Books](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23723) Thank you, I was looking to cite the article, and I couldn’t find it again. Basically, it says that there _are_ at least two tea parties. One of them is full of people who want change in government. People who want the government to cut spending, lower taxes, and a bunch of other relatively sane things. And the other half are, relatively, fucking nutbars. The problem is that the two groups don’t intersect except at major conventions, so you wind up with the sane tea partiers going ‘The press is lying about us!’ and being right… from their perspective, and the nutbars going ‘We’re everywhere’ and being right… from their perspective. It’s only when you bring the two together that they realize they have nothing in common. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/59 "2010-04-04T21:48:01Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Thank you, I was looking to cite the article, and I couldn’t find it again… Glad to. Mr Raban is an excellent writer and a wry observer and, bless his heart, he does his damn homework. I also heartily recommend his book _Badlands_, a truly eye-opening story on an almost unknown episode of Americana. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871/60 "2010-04-04T22:18:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well, that would be a step above his usual tactic of citing a source that doesn’t say what he claims it says. Knock it off. [/Modding] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-beliefs-vs-goals-vs-tactics/534871.md?page=4)