# The Tea Party is not socially conservative my ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760 "2010-10-11T06:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/361 "2010-10-15T23:58:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Strassia](#): > > > > They may not have planned it that way, but anybody who stepped into office in January 2009 was fiscally screwed from the get go. > > Oh they planned it that way, you can be assured. It is not just a series of coincidences. Who’s “they”? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/362 "2010-10-16T00:38:22Z")
> [@villa](#): > > What makes those who call Obama Muslim racist is that they would never in a million years make such allegations towards a white President. Sure they would. [Here’s an example](http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/dec2004/george_bush_muslim.jpg). 😛 > [@villa](#): > > The main reason Obama’s faith is challenged is because of the color of his skin. No it isn’t. A white man with the same name and the same childhood backgound would fall under the same type of suspicion. And most of the Muslims that Americans hate, resent and fear are white. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/363 "2010-10-16T00:40:15Z")
So, if we’ve established that the Tea Party is just as (if not more) socially conservative than the Republican Party. And their fiscal stance is nothing more than to oppose what Obama does. What’s their point? How are they different/distinct from the Republican Party? I think one of the most telling features of the Tea Party is that their queen made no mention of any of this when running for VP. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/364 "2010-10-16T00:50:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …And most of the Muslims that Americans hate, resent and fear are white. Remember, you heard it here first! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/365 "2010-10-16T01:03:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Bullshit. If you hire new employees just because you get a tax cut, you are a very poor businessman. Most businesses have plenty of capital to hire employees, but they lack demand for their products. What is the point of hiring employees if you don’t have enough work for the ones you have now? Tax cuts do not spur hiring, consumer demand does. We have had tax cuts for the wealthy for almost ten years now; where are all the jobs you say should have been created? Why didn’t the Bush tax cuts work the first time around? Why should we increase the deficit to line the pockets of corporations that aren’t going to hire anybody anyway? Tax cuts are just a give away to the wealthy. It’s not exactly that simple, thoguh you’re mostly right, but it’s irrelevant; were it not for the taxes that business pays, **how in the hell could business function?** It’d be pretty hard to run a business with no government. No rule of law, no public infrastructure, no civil justice, no common currency… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/366 "2010-10-16T01:12:29Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > Tea Partiers not only want to reduce the deficit, but they also want to reduce the size of the federal government. You’re not going to get many (any?) Democrats signing up for that. > > While that’s true enough, it doesn’t mean that the Tea Partiers are Libertarians or even traditional fiscal conservatives. Where were they when the previous administration decided to start two wars _and_ cut taxes? I didn’t hear much of, “We’re fighting two wars, we have to pay for them somehow.” > > The much-maligned and woefully too small stimulus is a drop in the bucket compared to the two wars that we have run off the theory of . . . well, shit, y’know **John** , I can’t even imagine what theory the previous administration had in mind to pay for the wars. Where were the deficit hawks then? I didn’t mean to imply that they were libertarian. Like I said much earlier in this thread, I would be surprised if more than 10% of TPs would fall in that category. Most seem to be run-of-the-mill social conservatives who are “Mad as hell, and aren’t going to take it anymore”. As for the wars, the original estimate for Iraq was $50B. Oops. Afghanistan was always pretty much open ended. Good luck Obama trying to end that without Afghanistan turning into another Taliban run disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/367 "2010-10-16T01:21:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > Oh they planned it that way, you can be assured. It is not just a series of coincidences. > > Who’s “they”? Those concerned with long-term strategery for the Republican Party. Not Bush, nor Mcain, and CERTAINLY not Palin. Maybe Rove,Cheney, and others. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/368 "2010-10-16T02:07:35Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > > [@user\_hostile](#): > > > > You think your grandparents would be honored that you said this? (snip) > > I would think that the “what the hell, they’re dead” comment would explain this. It doesn’t matter whether they would be honored or not. They are dead. > > > [@](#): > > > > I just don’t get the _coolness_ factor of dissing your blood relatives. How cool would be if your grand-kids called you “sand-nigger?” > > I would tell them, that’s “dune coon” to you. Silly person, I am far above being offended by name-calling. :(:(:(. I think a better way to describe it is autistic. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/369 "2010-10-16T06:20:02Z")
When things are going to hell in a hand basket, it is often a good idea to stop and perhaps take a turn off the road. President Obama is a good thing. I will support pretty much anything that is not what Bush was or the folks that are nothing but the same under a different name. It stuns me. The Tea Party is actually worse than Bush. This new ‘Party’ wants to distance themselves from the last Republican fiasco. The Tea Party wants to burn the constitution and what made America what it is (or was) by putting religion back in government. Have they forgotten 4th grade history class? From where I sit and what I see, the Tea Party can’t see beyond next Tuesday. For instance, the ‘Tea Party’ in Colorado is for a 50% reduction for school spending. I don’t have children and never will, but understand that education is important for everyone’s future. Colorado is #34th in $ per student in the nation. It’s embarrassing. I really don’t know how to respond to these folks, but I have tried. I emailed the woman that runs the site that sponsors this amendment, and she actually responded. She said “thank you for your polite email, most people just curse at me”. She stated that the shortfall for education would be picked up by the State. I asked “if the state general budget is effectively gone to support schools, and state funds are also reduced by other amendments, where is the money going to come from to maintain roads and infrastructure?” (just the tip of the iceberg really) She has not responded. People that can’t see further ahead than the next TV they can buy on so called ‘tax savings’ should not be making budget amendments to the Colorado constitution. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/370 "2010-10-16T17:41:21Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …And most of the Muslims that Americans hate, resent and fear are white. I know better, but just can’t help it, I gotta ask: What in the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/371 "2010-10-16T18:28:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > > …And most of the Muslims that Americans hate, resent and fear are white. > > I know better, but just can’t help it, I gotta ask: What in the hell are you talking about? They’re religious bigots, not racial bigots. Nothing to worry about! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/372 "2010-10-16T18:50:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > > …And most of the Muslims that Americans hate, resent and fear are white. > > I know better, but just can’t help it, I gotta ask: What in the hell are you talking about? I am sure it has something to do with [brown paper bags.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_paper_bag_test) ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/373 "2010-10-16T19:00:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Bullshit. If you hire new employees just because you get a tax cut, you are a very poor businessman. Most businesses have plenty of capital to hire employees, but they lack demand for their products. What is the point of hiring employees if you don’t have enough work for the ones you have now? Dumbass…I have enough work. I need equipment, and employees, and that costs money. I can either pay it in taxes, where it will be spent on Chinese windmills and otherwise flushed down the toilet, or I can buy more equipment and hire people to operate it. Because I have to pay it in taxes, jobs will not be created. That’s how it works. Why is that so difficult to understand? > [@](#): > > We have had tax cuts for the wealthy for almost ten years now; where are all the jobs you say should have been created? Fox News just posted a link to a tax cut rate calculator, and you might be surprised at just where the line for “the rich” is drawn. I only allow myself and my husband a small salary, because we put all of our money into the business, and we’re always working, so we don’t have time to spend it anyway, yet, the taxes on my lower-middle class salary will be increased, dramatically. The $250,000 figure that Obama talked about is just outright horse shit. The tax cuts are “across the board”. Is the economy fucked up, despite the tax cuts? Yes, just as sometimes a wound festers despite the best medical treatment. Does that mean that medical treatment is a failure, and we should try shaking maracas instead? No. We know that shaking maracas will not cure a wound, just as we know that we can’t tax our way out of a recession. Leeching money from the economy can only make things worse…history has shown us that. So why do you want your taxes increased? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/374 "2010-10-16T19:05:55Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > Fox News just posted a link to a tax cut rate calculator, and you might be surprised at just where the line for “the rich” is drawn. > > … > > So why do you want your taxes increased? I don’t believe a word Fox News publishes. Period. > [@](#): > > The $250,000 figure that Obama talked about is just outright horse shit. The tax cuts are “across the board”. Yes, everyone keeps the tax cut on the first $250k. Anything over that goes back up to 39%. What is your point? My taxes aren’t going up, and anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/375 "2010-10-16T19:08:51Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > > Exactly. If tax cuts are what will cause more people to get hired by more businesses, why didn’t we have a net job gain during the Bush administrations, when the tax cuts were in effect? It’s all a lie, is why. > > Go further back in time to Reagan and his Reaganomics trickle down theory - that the benefits of “corporate hand outs” would trickle down to everyone. It was a spectacular failure. Nothing trickled down. Corporations won’t save the American economy. Small business will. The snowjob is that this is about government vs. big business. It isn’t. I’m not happy with the things that big business and government have done to this country, and you’re a fool if you believe that one or the other will be your salvation. What we need to do is put a muzzle on government, cut it back, start scrapping it, so that small business can survive and prosper. I can’t speak for corporations, only for my business, and for other business owners I know, and I can tell you that we are able, willing, and ready to hire people, if the government will leave us alone and let us do it. Unfortunately, the situation just got a whole lot worse with Barrycare. ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/376 "2010-10-16T19:12:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This indicates that you are very, very wrong about the racial makeup of this group. Your agenda is that you want to convince us that the Tea Party are just a regular sample of the population whose only concern is the economy. No, what I was saying was that the groups are probably not predominately racist, because there are plenty of black people involved with them, plenty of blacks involved, no fistfights or murders. I don’t see anyone actually counting the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/377 "2010-10-16T19:16:27Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > Dumbass…I have enough work. I need equipment, and employees, and that costs money. I can either pay it in taxes, where it will be spent on Chinese windmills and otherwise flushed down the toilet, or I can buy more equipment and hire people to operate it. Because I have to pay it in taxes, jobs will not be created. That’s how it works. Why is that so difficult to understand? May I ask, what does your business produce? ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/378 "2010-10-16T19:23:54Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > > [@Morella](#): > > > > Cut my taxes in half right now and I will give you a job. > > This would only be true if you are an employer who hires people simply out of a desire to see them have a job. Must I digress to the GED level? I want to hire people because those people can make money for me, and expand my business. I am willing to pay them whatever they are worth to me as assets. That’s the way it works in the real world. Without the government leeches attached, both to me, and to the employee, the business could expand faster, and more people would have jobs. > [@](#): > > If, on the other hand, you’re like most employers, and you hire the number of people you need to maximize your profit, then you’re spouting complete bullshit. If another employee would increase your company’s profitability, you would hire that person right now. IF and ONLY IF I had the venture capital to pay for the equipment and the employee’s training. I do expect to see a return on that money when the employee becomes productive. That’s how it works. Unfortunately, I have to spend my capital on taxes, which will go to Chinese windmills, and to support people who don’t work for a living, and that is what will fuck up the economy. The economy is what we make of it…if we don’t work, we aren’t making anything. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t blame you for this. If i were a small business owner, and i got a tax cut, there’s no way i’d use it to hire someone just for the hell of it. I’d pocket the money. If you were to start your own business, it would be a major reality check for you. Money in your pocket is worthless. “Money” does nothing but go down in value. It has to be invested, in people and in equipment. > [@](#): > > And if my business profitability would be improved by hiring a new employee, i’d do that whether or not there was a tax cut because more profit is good for the business and for me, even if it’s being taxed. If you had the money to do it, yes. If you had to spend the money on taxes, it would go to waste, and someone would be unemployed. That is exactly what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/379 "2010-10-16T19:34:05Z")
**Morella** : What would you consider a fair top marginal tax rate, with which conservatives would be satisfied, and no longer campaign for tax cuts? ---
**Author:** ![Morella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Morella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morella)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760/380 "2010-10-16T19:35:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Can you read for comprehension? I am asking, if its only focus is getting rid of government waste, why are all the candidates it endorses socially conservative? Is everyone who is fiscally conservative also socially conservative? Is gay marriage government waste? Since when did abortion laws have an effect on the deficit? DADT seems to cost the government money, shouldn’t they support repealing it? Or has this purportedly fiscal movement been taken over by social conservatives? If this movement is based solely on fiscal issues, where are the socially tolerant candidates? Ever watch _Battlestar Galactica_? “You have to pick your side”. I would be in complete agreement with a political party, that supported these ideas : Religion is total bullshit, and should be abolished. The EPA and most other regulatory agencies should be abolished. All prescription drugs should be freely available to adults. No drugs should be illegal. Gays should not be allowed to legally marry, but they can do anything else they want to do, as long as the government doesn’t have to pay the bill for their AIDS. Antitrust regulations should be toughened. No American company should be allowed to use foreign labor. Any person living in this country illegally should be shot. Welfare, public education, and social security should be abolished. No free health care, for anyone. Does any party align with all of these ideas? No. I will vote conservative, despite the fact that I obviously disagree with much of the conservative agenda, because it is the lesser of all of the evils. I won’t hate black people, and I won’t praise Jesus, whether the party that I have chosen to vote for does or not. That’s what we all have to do…pick our side. It’s not a perfect world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tea-party-is-not-socially-conservative-my-ass/556760.md?page=20)